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Full-Timer RV'er
post Oct 8 2012, 10:53 PM
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When it is not obvious what service an animal provides, only limited inquiries are allowed. Staff may ask two questions: (1) is the dog a service animal required because of a disability, and (2) what work or task has the dog been trained to perform. Staff cannot ask about the personís disability, require medical documentation, require a special identification card or training documentation for the dog, or ask that the dog demonstrate its ability to perform the work or task


ADA Service Animals


Hope this helps for those who are a bit lost when it comes to EXACTLY what a service animal is... Although it classifies them as NOT a pet, most owners will refer to them as PETS because like us they do NOT wish to classify them as a lesser important animal....
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kcmoedoe
post Oct 9 2012, 10:28 AM
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QUOTE(Full-Timer RV'er @ Oct 8 2012, 10:32 PM) *

From your posted link

Service animals are defined as dogs that are individually trained to do work or perform tasks for people with disabilities. Examples of such work or tasks include guiding people who are blind, alerting people who are deaf, pulling a wheelchair, alerting and protecting a person who is having a seizure, reminding a person with mental illness to take prescribed medications, calming a person with Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD) during an anxiety attack, or performing other duties. Service animals are working animals, not pets. The work or task a dog has been trained to provide must be directly related to the personís disability. Dogs whose sole function is to provide comfort or emotional support do not qualify as service animals under the ADA.

Some State and local laws also define service animal more broadly than the ADA does. Information about such laws can be obtained from the State attorney generalís office

Although very informative it does not quote any cases before the courts with regards to these issues which is exactly what I did....

To me ALL VETERANS are better people than the average US citizen. They gave up a lot more than we will ever understand. Some of them also have some inappropriate behaviors towards certain situations because for their training, thus requiring a different than "normal" tactic in handling.

Some days I have more "down time" than others due to medical conditions. Today happened to be one of those... Tomorrow may be a different story... Hows your health, perfect I imagine.....

There is some misunderstanding regarding terms. If your husband's dog is trained to assist him with PTSD then it is legally is "Service Dog". An example of a "therapy dog" would be a dog trained to visit hospitals and nursing homes and interact with a multiple people.
As for your husband being better than the average citizen, I find that repulsive. Our country was founded on the principle that we are all equal. If someone does or does not serve in the military is really immaterial. Unless he is a Vietnam Vet or really old and served in Korea or WW2 he VOLUNTEERED to be in the military. While his service is noble, it is a choice he made. If he responds "inappropriately" to certain situations, he needs to get help and avoid those situations.
Apparently, there is much more to this story than just the park's refusal to allow your dogs. Sounds like a confrontation occured, and it was spurred by your husband. Was the park's refusal to allow you to stay based more on your husband's actions and maybe not so much about the service dogs?
You took me to task about how your service dogs are your pets, yet you quoted the ADA statement that Service Dogs are not pets, guess I was right about that. If you have some knowledge of pending ADA litigation, so what? It is everyone's right to sue anyone about anything. Only when the outcome of the case is determined does it carry any legal significance.
As for my health, what difference does it make? But if you need to know, I either 1) have never been sick a day in my life, 2) have age appropriate health conditions or 3) am confined to a wheelchair which would explain why I have some knowledge of disability law. You just never know
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Full-Timer RV'er
post Oct 9 2012, 10:44 AM
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QUOTE(kcmoedoe @ Oct 9 2012, 11:28 AM) *

There is some misunderstanding regarding terms. If your husband's dog is trained to assist him with PTSD then it is legally is "Service Dog". An example of a "therapy dog" would be a dog trained to visit hospitals and nursing homes and interact with a multiple people.
As for your husband being better than the average citizen, I find that repulsive. Our country was founded on the principle that we are all equal. If someone does or does not serve in the military is really immaterial. Unless he is a Vietnam Vet or really old and served in Korea or WW2 he VOLUNTEERED to be in the military. While his service is noble, it is a choice he made. If he responds "inappropriately" to certain situations, he needs to get help and avoid those situations.
Apparently, there is much more to this story than just the park's refusal to allow your dogs. Sounds like a confrontation occured, and it was spurred by your husband. Was the park's refusal to allow you to stay based more on your husband's actions and maybe not so much about the service dogs?
You took me to task about how your service dogs are your pets, yet you quoted the ADA statement that Service Dogs are not pets, guess I was right about that. If you have some knowledge of pending ADA litigation, so what? It is everyone's right to sue anyone about anything. Only when the outcome of the case is determined does it carry any legal significance.
As for my health, what difference does it make? But if you need to know, I either 1) have never been sick a day in my life, 2) have age appropriate health conditions or 3) am confined to a wheelchair which would explain why I have some knowledge of disability law. You just never know




You seemed to have missed the point completely about this post.....

I was asking.... Travelers with animals.....

Would you prefer to be fore warned about potential problems with your animals, especially in the case of MEMBERSHIP parks, prior to making reservations and or stopping at a park ? ? ? ? ? ?



That was / is / and always has been the point. You sir / ma'am chose to attempt to change the subject matter. I deeply apologize IF you feel this "NEWBIE" has offended you in some way, however your hostilities over MY preference calling of our SERVICE ANIMALS as pets is truly some of the worst inappropriate and flaming behavior I have experienced in my many many years as a FORUM PARTICIPANT.....

Good day dear person.....
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GandJ
post Oct 9 2012, 11:50 AM
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QUOTE(Full-Timer RV'er @ Oct 8 2012, 10:17 PM) *

Your friend's girlfriend would need to be evaluated and have the animal prescribed. Each State has different laws in addition to the ADA mandate. Although you are correct you may only have one animal per prescription.


Just between us, I thought he was kind of a jerk for trying to get around the rules like that. But since I was only a volunteer, I couldn't really say anything.

As for the g/f, she didn't have any disability...other than being with him. wink.gif

One other question, if I may: Does an ADA dog (yeah, I know it's supposed to be called "service animal") have to be with the person for whom it's prescribed at the time it's doing something covered under ADA, such as being in a grocery store or restaurant?

I ask because several times there has been a lady with a pit bull (official looking orange vest and all) in one of the grocery stores in town. One day while we were all at the deli counter*, I asked her some stuff like how old her dog is, what his name is and what special talents he has and such. Come to find out, it was her mother's dog and her mother wasn't even in the store with them.

That sounds kinda odd to me.

(*This is kinda gross, but while we were standing there talking, the dog had it's nose in the freshly baked baguettes that were just in paper sleeves and not fully bagged. He was just sniffing and snorfling around in there. I don't buy those anymore.)


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Full-Timer RV'er
post Oct 9 2012, 12:32 PM
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QUOTE(GandJ @ Oct 9 2012, 12:50 PM) *

Just between us, I thought he was kind of a jerk for trying to get around the rules like that. But since I was only a volunteer, I couldn't really say anything.

As for the g/f, she didn't have any disability...other than being with him. wink.gif

One other question, if I may: Does an ADA dog (yeah, I know it's supposed to be called "service animal") have to be with the person for whom it's prescribed at the time it's doing something covered under ADA, such as being in a grocery store or restaurant?

I ask because several times there has been a lady with a pit bull (official looking orange vest and all) in one of the grocery stores in town. One day while we were all at the deli counter*, I asked her some stuff like how old her dog is, what his name is and what special talents he has and such. Come to find out, it was her mother's dog and her mother wasn't even in the store with them.

That sounds kinda odd to me.

(*This is kinda gross, but while we were standing there talking, the dog had it's nose in the freshly baked baguettes that were just in paper sleeves and not fully bagged. He was just sniffing and snorfling around in there. I don't buy those anymore.)



This friend, friend's girlfriend, and store lady all seem to be the type of people kcmowdoe is all up in arms about. People who know just enough about the law to by-pass rules, regulations, and policies. They "gray" area they would like see closed through the Federal Government.

Now to answer your question. NO the "employer" must remain with the animal at all times when outside the residence. The only time the "employer" is not with the animal, outside the residence, is during the training process and this is done by a Licensed Individual who MUST provide documentation if asked for it.

Since you stated the animal in question was sniffing the food products in the area, this is the first sign this animal is NOT a trained animal. A trained animal will either sit or stand, depending on training, patiently until it's "employer" is done with the activity they are involved in.

The "very official" looking vest you said the lady had on the animal can be purchased online at a variety of websites, the biggest being of course eBay... So having a vest or not having a vest is not always indicative of it being a prescribed service animal. As with all loop hole type things, kcmoedoe is correct. There will always be someone trying to use it to their benefit illegally....



kcmoedoe - - I apologize for misspelling your name the first-time in my reply.... e & w are side by side and since your name comes up as misspelled either way, I honestly didn't notice it. My bad....
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kcmoedoe
post Oct 9 2012, 02:35 PM
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QUOTE(Full-Timer RV'er @ Oct 9 2012, 10:44 AM) *

You seemed to have missed the point completely about this post.....

I was asking.... Travelers with animals.....

Would you prefer to be fore warned about potential problems with your animals, especially in the case of MEMBERSHIP parks, prior to making reservations and or stopping at a park ? ? ? ? ? ?

That was / is / and always has been the point. You sir / ma'am chose to attempt to change the subject matter. I deeply apologize IF you feel this "NEWBIE" has offended you in some way, however your hostilities over MY preference calling of our SERVICE ANIMALS as pets is truly some of the worst inappropriate and flaming behavior I have experienced in my many many years as a FORUM PARTICIPANT.....

Good day dear person.....

Still don't know what being a "newbie" has to do with anything. You are the only one who has mentioned it in this entire thread. As for the distinction between "pet" and "Service Dog" there is VASTLY different protections allowed service dogs that do not apply to pets. If you do not refer to your service dog as a service dog, you are not going to receive the considerations and protections the Service Dog has rightly earned.
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Full-Timer RV'er
post Oct 9 2012, 03:03 PM
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QUOTE(kcmoedoe @ Oct 9 2012, 03:35 PM) *

Still don't know what being a "newbie" has to do with anything. You are the only one who has mentioned it in this entire thread. As for the distinction between "pet" and "Service Dog" there is VASTLY different protections allowed service dogs that do not apply to pets. If you do not refer to your service dog as a service dog, you are not going to receive the considerations and protections the Service Dog has rightly earned.



FYI - When asked how many "pets" - We do state "2 service animals..." Although I never felt it relevant......... When discussing them with others we call them by exactly what they are... In our hearts they are so much more.... Maybe instead of jumping to conclusions you should have really gone back and read what this whole post was about... Yes, we are except from many rules and regulations... However again that was not the point here.... I am actually concerned about MORE than just myself.... Now prior to making reservations, we call the park. We tell them we have 2 service animals and ask what their policies are PRIOR to making reservations.... The rude person accusing my Labrador of being a Staffordshire PIT BULL..... Was most assuredly a very valuable lesson learned.... I would pray and hope others would not have to go through the same "rough" lessons because they felt it wasn't worth being concerned about..... So...

Your jumping to conclusions all the way through you various posts, I did go back through and reread them a number of times to make sure I wasn't missing something, merely proved my point... You only took from it what you wished and went "a typing"..... Maybe next time ask questions before you go "a bashing"... You do NOT know me, my hubby, our animals, or the situation in which we found ourselves, just as I do not know you..... and at this point hinestly DO NOT care to.....

Have a nice day smile.gif
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kcmoedoe
post Oct 9 2012, 08:20 PM
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QUOTE(Full-Timer RV'er @ Oct 9 2012, 03:03 PM) *

FYI - When asked how many "pets" - We do state "2 service animals..." Although I never felt it relevant......... When discussing them with others we call them by exactly what they are... In our hearts they are so much more.... Maybe instead of jumping to conclusions you should have really gone back and read what this whole post was about... Yes, we are except from many rules and regulations... However again that was not the point here.... I am actually concerned about MORE than just myself.... Now prior to making reservations, we call the park. We tell them we have 2 service animals and ask what their policies are PRIOR to making reservations.... The rude person accusing my Labrador of being a Staffordshire PIT BULL..... Was most assuredly a very valuable lesson learned.... I would pray and hope others would not have to go through the same "rough" lessons because they felt it wasn't worth being concerned about..... So...

Your jumping to conclusions all the way through you various posts, I did go back through and reread them a number of times to make sure I wasn't missing something, merely proved my point... You only took from it what you wished and went "a typing"..... Maybe next time ask questions before you go "a bashing"... You do NOT know me, my hubby, our animals, or the situation in which we found ourselves, just as I do not know you..... and at this point hinestly DO NOT care to.....

Have a nice day smile.gif
In your own words, if you would look at the red underlined words you would see the correct spelling would be HONESTLY, not HINESTLY. You brought the sniping on yourself, with that comment about a mispelling of mine. There are also several other grammatical errors in you most recent post, but unlike you, I don't think it is necessary to point them out. You said your husband responds to certain situations poorly due to his PTSD. Since you pointed it out, I must assume it is related to your experiences. If you don't want your experiences to be discussed and disected, don't post them on a public forum.
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Texasrvers
post Oct 9 2012, 08:35 PM
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Ok guys, this is enough. We don't care who started it. We don't care who spelled what wrong. We're stopping it. Stop with the rude, condescending, character assassination comments, or we will shut down the thread!

Go back to the original question only:

ďAs a pet owner I WANT to know IF I am going to run into a problem BEFORE I arrive or make reservations. Am I the only one?Ē
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