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RFCN2
post Oct 1 2011, 10:21 PM
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This forum is about rv's and I am going to confine myself to that subject.


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Goose Creek
post Oct 2 2011, 06:29 AM
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QUOTE(RFCN2 @ Oct 1 2011, 11:21 PM) *

This forum is about rv's and I am going to confine myself to that subject.


Thank you.
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Dave in Colorado
post Oct 12 2011, 10:41 AM
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As the original poster on this thread, I want to say that my post was never about the irrevalent fact that the partying group happened to arrive on motorcycles. I am not a biker myself, but I have friends that are. A couple of them even attend the Sturgis rally regularly. I am pretty amazed and disgusted that the thread immediately evolved into a biased discussion of bikers and totally ignored my original complaint about the management of one KOA campground.

Let me reiterate. The Devils Tower KOA is only able to stay in business because of its proximity to one of America's natural wonders. The vast majority of visitors to the area have some sort of natural outdoor experience in mind. Adding to the mystique of the tower is the fact that multiple Native American cultures consider it sacred. The National Park Service in recent years has revised the management strategy in order to stress this aspect of Devils Tower history. The Devils Tower KOA is literally right on the park boundary. This business should show a lot more class and respect to the to the National Park that draws in their customers. They should also respect their own customers and they should adhere to their own quiet-hour rules. KOA's inability to say "NO" to an inappropriate disruptive activity is my complaint.

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Texasrvers
post Oct 12 2011, 11:14 AM
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QUOTE(Dave in Colorado @ Oct 12 2011, 11:41 AM) *

I am pretty amazed and disgusted that the thread immediately evolved into a biased discussion of bikers and totally ignored my original complaint about the management of one KOA campground.


I think you have a very valid point, and I'm glad you brought it to our attention.

QUOTE
they [the KOA] should adhere to their own quiet-hour rules. KOA's inability to say "NO" to an inappropriate disruptive activity is my complaint.


I do not know if this KOA has trouble enforcing their rules all the time, but I want to mention that the owner of this KOA was killed sometime in the last 6 months in a very tragic accident at the park. It sounds like this loud noise event occurred sometime shortly after his death, and perhaps the KOA staff wasn't quiet up to par because of their recent tragedy. However, I totally agree with your view that this KOA (and any other RV park) should respect and honor the cultures, traditions, and customs of the area in which it is located, and it is a shame that for whatever reason that did not happen this time.
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RFCN2
post Oct 13 2011, 12:39 PM
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Dave in Colorado

I am amazed that you are disgusted. I had exactly the same problem with noise in a KOA park in Missoula in the same time period. And the problem was caused by the same group. If you go look at my post in this web site under that campground you will see I was polite and did not point out that the noise from the band caused my wife and I to loose sleep too. The band was right in the middle of approx 300 bikers / motorcyclists tent camping in the KOA.

My comments about bikers are not biased. I am only pointing out my experiences. No doubt most motor cyclists are fine people. But in the area we live plenty are not. And I have a particular sensitivity to the noise from illegal unmuffled Harley's. No one seems to care about that. The noise hurts my ears. What is biased about that comment?

High beams. The rules of the road are you are free to use high beams until you encounter oncoming traffic. Then you dip your lights so as not to blind the oncoming vehicles. Many motorcyclists use high beams in this area and virtually none dip the beams to regular when faced with oncoming traffic. This activity is unsafe and discourteous. Plus it is against the law. What is biased about that statement?

Keep in mind that this is a discussion forum where people brought to this site by interest in RVing can share their views. I do understand that it must be frustrating to regular law abiding people who ride motorcycles that there is a lot of negative feelings from a minority of outlaw gangs like the Hells angels. I have no complete solution for that, but a place to start would be to get mufflers and stop glaring your high beams at oncoming traffic.

As far as the KOA allowing bands. Just another reason why I am tending to stay away from KOA's.


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Dave in Colorado
post Oct 13 2011, 02:21 PM
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RFCN2

Bad choice of words on my part. Don't take it personal. I just felt like the the thread got hijacked a little bit from my original observation. But I had it coming because I did mention that the loud group of people were bikers. And of course I have noticed that noisy behavior is not uncommon among motorcycle groups. So I shouldn't be too annoyed that the thread quickly evolved into a discussion about bikers. Some of those guys can be plenty annoying, or much worse, as you pointed out. I just happened to be more pissed off at KOA for letting them do it.

Your comments about the KOA in Missoula sounds like we had similar experiences. The tent areas at KOAs are often populated by noisy groups and I really try to stay away from them, too. As for the Devils Tower KOA, I not only will not stay there, but I will try to camp at least five miles away in the future. There are some good boondocking areas in the Black Hills National Forest.
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Goose Creek
post Oct 14 2011, 08:12 AM
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I think that the KOA should not have allowed the band. At least without warning all of the other campers, and anyone going there to camp so they could find another campground if they choose.
I stayed at one KOA, and won't stay at another one. Not everyone is a fan of loud rock music when camping.
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chowhound
post Oct 14 2011, 09:08 AM
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Ok, now you all are painting all KOA's with that same broad brush that you just accused each other of using to paint bikers.

As I have said, in another thread, "KOA is not MacDonalds" each one is very very different. Some are very nice, some are very bad, the rest are somewhere in between. On this site, we rate each campground individually. To avoid all KOA's because of your experience at one or two, would cause you to miss out on some mighty fine campgrounds in this vast country.

Whether it's KOA's, Biker's, RVer's or just plain folks, take them one at a time, and leave the broad brush for painting houses.
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rgatijnet
post Oct 18 2011, 10:14 AM
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Just to add my two cents.............bad situations can happen ANYWHERE. It has nothing to do with a particular area. It has everything to do with a particular group of people. In this case it sounds like it was a planned event, and campers should have been notified/warned, in advance.
At one park we stayed at in Jacksonville, FL, there was a warning posted that the next door flea market has live entertainment on the weekends. This gave us something to expect and to decide if this noise would bother us.
As far as Sturgis, SD goes, it is a great town. We arrived there about September 9th of this year. We planned on staying a few days to see the surrounding sights. We ended up staying two weeks, which is the longest we have ever stayed at any place that was not our home.
I love motorcycles and raced them in my younger years. I never owned, or wanted to own, a Harley, but that is a personal choice and I have no problem with those that do. We knew that the Sturgis rally would be noisy and crowded so we avoided the area until after things had calmed down. We stayed at the downtown Sturgis RV park, which was only a few blocks from main street, and had a very pleasant two week stay.
We did get over to Devils Tower, and although there was no noisy concert going on, our visit there was ruined by three busloads of foreign tourists that descended on the place and overran all facilities and pathways. Oh well, sometimes stuff just happens. biggrin.gif
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kcmoedoe
post Oct 18 2011, 02:23 PM
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QUOTE(Goose Creek @ Oct 14 2011, 08:12 AM) *

I think that the KOA should not have allowed the band. At least without warning all of the other campers, and anyone going there to camp so they could find another campground if they choose.
I stayed at one KOA, and won't stay at another one. Not everyone is a fan of loud rock music when camping.

We don't know if the KOA informed the campers or not. The OP did not stay at the KOA the night of the concert. They stayed there the night before and were dry camping the evening in question. The KOA would have had no reason to inform the OP of the concert since they were not staying there that night. I still question exactly how loud and disturbing this actually was, since the OP apparently is actually more concerned that the concert goers were motorcyclists than about the actual music. It also apparently ended around midnight on Labor Day weekend. Though that is later than most of us old geezers like, it is not really that late for a holiday weekend. What happened at the KOA you stayed at that bothered you so much you will never stay at another? Was it evil Rock and Roll music also? I have stayed at many KOAs and have never encountered a problem with Rock concerts. Heck, you can stop anywhere, and by the luck of the draw encounter a one night event that would bother you. I wouldn't want to stop in the middle of nowhere and encounter a tent revival with a screaming preacher telling me to repent for my sins. I wouldn't want to land in the middle of a civil war re-inactment, with cannons blasting while I tried to sleep. but if I did, I sure wouldn't hold it against all the KOAs across the country. I would just laugh it off and curse my bad timing.
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Texasrvers
post Oct 18 2011, 02:51 PM
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QUOTE(kcmoedoe @ Oct 18 2011, 03:23 PM) *

the OP apparently is actually more concerned that the concert goers were motorcyclists than about the actual music.



I disagree. If you look back at post #18 you will see that the OP's main problem was with the fact that this KOA allowed this concert to happen in an area that is sacred to Native Americans and that the park did not enforce its quiet hours/rules. He mentioned the attendees were bikers, but that was not the point of his complaint.
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kcmoedoe
post Oct 18 2011, 05:56 PM
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QUOTE(Texasrvers @ Oct 18 2011, 02:51 PM) *

I disagree. If you look back at post #18 you will see that the OP's main problem was with the fact that this KOA allowed this concert to happen in an area that is sacred to Native Americans and that the park did not enforce its quiet hours/rules. He mentioned the attendees were bikers, but that was not the point of his complaint.

You are absolutely correct, the OP didn't complain about the bikers, only the noise. I got the OP confused with the poster who has problems with Harley Davidson riders. My bad and I apologize to the OP. However, since they were not staying at the KOA, their only complaint would be to law enforcement about the music creating a public disturbance. The park's quiet hours would not be an issue since the park quiet hours are purely a voluntary rule of the park and not enforceable by anyone but the park. The park can waive those quiet hours any time they wish and not violate any law. If the park doesn't enforce one of it's rules, that is an issue that only the guests of the park really have any standing to complain. It is tough issue, there probably should be a little more consideration due to the nature of Devil's Tower and perhaps a little leeway given due to the fact the problem occured on a major holiday weekend.
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Texasrvers
post Oct 18 2011, 06:47 PM
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QUOTE(kcmoedoe @ Oct 18 2011, 06:56 PM) *

You are absolutely correct, the OP didn't complain about the bikers, only the noise. I got the OP confused with the poster who has problems with Harley Davidson riders. My bad and I apologize to the OP. However, since they were not staying at the KOA, their only complaint would be to law enforcement about the music creating a public disturbance. The park's quiet hours would not be an issue since the park quiet hours are purely a voluntary rule of the park and not enforceable by anyone but the park. The park can waive those quiet hours any time they wish and not violate any law. If the park doesn't enforce one of it's rules, that is an issue that only the guests of the park really have any standing to complain. It is tough issue, there probably should be a little more consideration due to the nature of Devil's Tower and perhaps a little leeway given due to the fact the problem occured on a major holiday weekend.


Now I agree--especially with your last sentence.
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