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> Battery Prices From Sam's Club, cost per amp
pianotuna
post Aug 29 2009, 10:00 AM
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Hi All,

Battery prices from Sam's Club

G29 125 AH $79.42
G27 115AH $68.87
Golf Cart 6V 220AH $71.28

Based on dual batteries this equates to:

G 29....@....250 amp/hr = $0.63 per amp hour
G 27....@....230 amp/hr = $0.60 per amp hour
Golf Cart @ 220 amp/hr = $0.65 per amp hour

Before anyone does the "old saw" that six volt batteries last longer I'll point out that my last set of 12 volt batteries are six years old and still going strong. The "secret"? A 30 watt solar system with an old style charge controller.

I'll also point out that the dual G 29 set has 12% more amp hour capacity than the "twin" six volt set.


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Don
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Denali
post Aug 29 2009, 10:17 AM
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Don:

With your boondocking style and solar system you will be in a good position to test the folk wisdom that golf cart batteries will withstand many more discharge/recharge cycles than cranking, deep cycle, marine, etc. 12 volt batteries.

That said, why do golf carts all use golf cart batteries it there is no advantage to them?

--
Dave, considering adding four more GC batteries to the four he has


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Dave Rudisill
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2004 Beaver Monterey
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pianotuna
post Aug 29 2009, 11:45 AM
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Hi Dave,

Well, if you want to buy me some Golf Cart batteries to torture test--I'll be pleased to do so LOL!

The theory is that thicker plates last longer. I don't dispute that theory, but in "real life" for me at least it has not been proved to make any difference. Six years is a long time for a deep cycle battery to last.

What matters is the space beneath the cathode plate. The material "shales off" and builds up until the anode and cathode short against each other. The cathode plate is made from a different alloy to try to ameliorate that process. Some alloys are better than others. Some are more expensive than others.

I think the golf cart thang is due to the change over from 6 volt to 12 volt in the 1950's. Obviously there were inventories of six volt batteries--and golf carts needed 24 to 36 (sometimes 48?) volts. 12 volt motors that would provide the sort of raw torque needed would have to have huge windings. Speed controllers were in their infancy too.

A modern design would probably use 3 phase AC electric motors and 72 or more volts, but their are huge numbers of old design golf carts--and the infrastructure is there to support them.

It's rather like the qwerty keyboard vs Dvorak. Everyone knows that Dvorak is better--but almost no one uses it because all the standard key boards come in qwerty.

QUOTE(Denali @ Aug 29 2009, 10:17 AM) *

Don:

With your boondocking style and solar system you will be in a good position to test the folk wisdom that golf cart batteries will withstand many more discharge/recharge cycles than cranking, deep cycle, marine, etc. 12 volt batteries.

That said, why do golf carts all use golf cart batteries it there is no advantage to them?

--
Dave, considering adding four more GC batteries to the four he has



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Don
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abbygolden
post Aug 29 2009, 12:07 PM
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A battery wizard I ain't! However, regarding the golf cart batteries - I have a 42 - yes, 42 - volt system (seven six volt batteries). When home, I play 18 holes at least five times a week, sometimes more. My batteries are Trojan T-105s, highly recommended for golf cart applications. They cost roughly twice as much as the price you list. I have to change mine out about every three, sometimes four years. This year I installed a product called BatteryLifeSaver, which, among others things, says it will restore dying and even almost dead batteries to like new. I found that hard to believe but felt it was worth spending the $99 to save spending over $1,000 to see if it works. Amazingly it does as my batteries now register fully charged and my cart goes the 30 mph I like it to go (no, it isn't a stock cart).

Anyway, the point I'm getting to is how do the batteries compare (durability, life span, etc) to the T-105s? Please dumb down your answer so that I can understand because, as I first mentioned, a battery wizard I ain't! If the cheaper ones don't match up to the T-105s, I'll stay with the high priced spread.
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John Blue
post Aug 30 2009, 08:20 AM
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We also use the Trojan T-105 battery (six) in our golf cart. The live cycle is very long. The last set before ones in cart now were run close to eight years and had life yet. Ones in cart now are six years old and show no signs of slow down or problems. We use a automatic charger system, you plug in power cable and as soon as batteries are full it shuts off power. I can run the golf cart four to six weeks on a charge. I use it around our home to move everything on our 10 acres of land. I have looked on line at other batteries and found this one is best one for the job. Prices are a little high but it works. I understand the BatteryLifeSaver made in Clearwater, FL works very well.

Our house batteries in MH are two 8A8D AGM rated at 245 AH for total of 490 AH. The Trojan T-105 are a little to small for our needs. No water in the 8A8D cells to replace.


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John
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pianotuna
post Aug 30 2009, 10:59 AM
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Hi Abbygolden,

My former RV has two walmart 12 volt 105 amp hour batteries that are approaching seven years of age and show no signs of failure. The "secret" is a 30 watt solar system (which came with the RV). I didn't try to stint on electrical use.

QUOTE(abbygolden @ Aug 29 2009, 12:07 PM) *

Anyway, the point I'm getting to is how do the batteries compare (durability, life span, etc) to the T-105s? Please dumb down your answer so that I can understand because, as I first mentioned, a battery wizard I ain't! If the cheaper ones don't match up to the T-105s, I'll stay with the high priced spread.


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Don
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Lee and Fran
post Aug 31 2009, 10:58 AM
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Back some thirteen years ago I had a 74 winnebago using two 12volt batteries, I always bought from National Battery and asked for the best batteries they had for my purpose. Changed batteries average every 3 to 4 years. Sold motor home some 5 years ago. New owner changed to 6 volt. He is still running strong on those batteries. When I bought my new motor home it came with 6 volt and I wondered about that but was told by many people they are far better for motor homes and they run 250 dollars each.
Friend has a fifth wheel and changed his batteries also every 3 to 4 years. Last time he switched to 6 volt. Has been two years so far and he is happy. He too was told they are better for rv's.


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Lee and Fran
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pianotuna
post Aug 31 2009, 03:29 PM
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Hi all,

I won't get into the six volt vs twelve volt debate. It is to my mind, foolish, because what matters is the number of available amp hours. In an ideal world I'd use an LI battery pack--but that's beyond my (financial) means. My next choice would be 2 volt cells from Surrette. That is also too much "ouch" for my pocket book.

Here is what is may be done to keep lead acid batteries happy.

1. sufficient capacity in amp hours so that the battery is never taken below 50% of capacity. The more amp hours the merrier.

2. sufficient capacity so that when high watt items such as an electric water heater are used that no battery has more than a 25 amp hour draw.

3. a three stage charging system that is temperature compensated. This may easily be accomplished with solar panels where there are 60 watts of panels per 100 amp hours of capacity.

4. routine maintenance such as watering cells and keeping corrosion down.

5. all batteries to be of same capacity and similar age. It is probably best if they are from the same maker, too.

If this is done the batteries may last a long time.


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Don
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Kirk
post Aug 31 2009, 09:16 PM
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QUOTE
Before anyone does the "old saw" that six volt batteries last longer I'll point out that my last set of 12 volt batteries are six years old and still going strong
Other than a desire to start some kind of fight, why bother with that remark?

I happen to have a background in electrical work and I do know quite a bit about the differences in batteries and the reasons why well designed solar and dry camping systems usually use pairs of 6V batteries. Since you have made it clear that you already know better, why would anyone waste time in stating facts or design theories?

The fact is that you are happy with what you have so why would anyone want you to change? For most users the differences are not great but there are differences. Use what you like and be happy with them. There is no question that a wet cell battery which is carefully maintained and kept fully charged will last much longer. What I don't understand is how you know that your experience would not be even better with other batteries which you have never tried?

And, why would anyone think that you should change if you don't want to? Do I detect a chip?


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Good travelin !..............Kirk
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URL: www.adventure.1tree.net
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pianotuna
post Sep 1 2009, 12:51 AM
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Hi Kirk,

I apologize if that remark seemed "snide" to you. If there is a "chip" I hope it is part of an MPPT charge controller *grin*.

I do hope you read post #8 by me in this thread.

I'd love to hear what you have studied. I'm always eager to learn more.

I'd be most grateful for anyone to present definitive studies that prove that if the amp hours are equal that a six volt battery bank will out perform a twelve volt battery bank.

My maintenance on the twelve volt batteries in my previous RV, which have their seventh birthday in Sept 2009, was keeping them charged through 30 watts of solar power with an old style charge controller, watering them once per year and cleaning them once per year.

My costs per amp/hour and the lifespan of the batteries have been exceptional. It is not, however, "proof" that 12 volt units are "better".

One possible reason to lean towards 12 volts vs 6 volts is if there is storage space for only an odd number of batteries. In my new RV that would be 7 12 volt units. I could have done one bank of 4 six volt and one bank of 3 twelve volt--but I felt it was easier to just have all batteries the same.

If you wish to see a forum where I have posted information about the system with some measurements please surf here:

http://freecampsites.net/forum/technology/page-1/

And click on "Solar Boondocking".





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Don
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pianotuna
post Sep 9 2009, 11:46 AM
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posted in error


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Don
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