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> The Future Of Wi Fi In Campgrounds
camping1158
post Apr 5 2013, 09:42 PM
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I was talking to a campground owner and I think campgrounds are going to quit offering free (open) wifi and offer a paid service soon.

The reason is when you put up your credit card to buy wifi, then there is a way to track your use of the internet. So if your kids are downloading music or someone is sending Kiddy porn, the campground is not the one who gets in trouble. It changes the “end” user from the campground to the camper. Why would any campground want to face the legal trouble to offer free wifi? Just think of all the bad press if some pervert start downloading kiddy porn at the campground, the campground have a free open system and has no way of knowing who is downloading what. So the cops show up and bust the campground owner for the kiddy porn downloaded at his IP address.

Now why would any owner want to have that type of problem? If he gets hit with a $100,000 find, how many camp sites will he have to rent at $30 per night just to pay the fine? And you won’t want to camp there any more because the campground was in the local paper for kiddy porn. Can you blame them for not offering FREE wifi?
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JDOLLEN
post Apr 6 2013, 09:50 AM
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QUOTE(camping1158 @ Apr 5 2013, 08:42 PM) *

I was talking to a campground owner and I think campgrounds are going to quit offering free (open) wifi and offer a paid service soon.

The reason is when you put up your credit card to buy wifi, then there is a way to track your use of the internet. So if your kids are downloading music or someone is sending Kiddy porn, the campground is not the one who gets in trouble. It changes the “end” user from the campground to the camper. Why would any campground want to face the legal trouble to offer free wifi? Just think of all the bad press if some pervert start downloading kiddy porn at the campground, the campground have a free open system and has no way of knowing who is downloading what. So the cops show up and bust the campground owner for the kiddy porn downloaded at his IP address.

Now why would any owner want to have that type of problem? If he gets hit with a $100,000 find, how many camp sites will he have to rent at $30 per night just to pay the fine? And you won’t want to camp there any more because the campground was in the local paper for kiddy porn. Can you blame them for not offering FREE wifi?


I think the scenario you are painting is a bit of a red herring. I'm not a lawyer, nor do I profess to have an in depth knowledge of our legal systems but I strongly suspect that you must be in possession of said kiddie porn not just down loading it to be charged. I doubt any law enforcement officer with a lick of sense would ever consider laying such a charge against an RV Park knowing that they are just provide free internet service. Further, there are just too many other businesses such as Hotels, Motels, Librarys, Coffee Shops etc that provide free internet and I doubt that they would be exposing themselves to such a risk.

Free internet is a marketing tool. If a business chooses not to provide the service, they are just making it that much easier for their competition to take over their market.

Darrell
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docj
post Apr 6 2013, 11:01 AM
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QUOTE(JDOLLEN @ Apr 6 2013, 11:50 AM) *

Further, there are just too many other businesses such as Hotels, Motels, Librarys, Coffee Shops etc that provide free internet and I doubt that they would be exposing themselves to such a risk.

Free internet is a marketing tool. If a business chooses not to provide the service, they are just making it that much easier for their competition to take over their market.

Darrell


I agree; this topic has been racing around RV forums for the past week because IMHO RVers tend to react preemptively to perceived "threats" most of which never materialize. With Wi-Fi being a marketing item for many CG's, I seriously doubt that many of them are going to stop providing it because of some undefined legal issue.

However, I think that some CG owners are in a quandary over whether or not to spend the $$ necessary to bring extremely broadband internet to their sites (if they are even in a location where this is possible) in order to support the insatiable desire of customers to use more and more bandwidth for for streaming. A CG owner may get to the point at which he decides it isn't worth providing any free internet access because no one will be happy with it unless it has bandwidth he can't afford.

I can envision future scenarios in which CG owners provide low-bandwidth internet access for free and a broadband access for an additional fee. Of course, this presumes that the CG is located where broadband access is available, but T1 and T3 (or fractional T3) lines are available in most locations. A CG owner would need to do a cost-benefit analysis of installing such a line with an assumption of how many customers would need to use it at what price in order to make it viable for his business.

For example, if you owned a 200 site CG in a year-round location and assumed that 20% of the sites were occupied by customers that were willing to pay for bandwidth capable of streaming HD video. For a month that would work out to 1200 "site-days" of usage so a $15,000 T3 line cost could be absorbed if customers were willing to pay $12.50/day for broadband usage. That's probably a bit steep if your sites rent for ~$30-40/night, but if you could get a "half-T3" line for less money, maybe the cost would be affordable.

Obviously, this example is pure speculation, but I don't think the scenario is that unrealistic. Some "urban" CG's are already in locations where Verizon FIOS could be installed which would significantly reduce the costs from my T3 example.


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Dutch_12078
post Apr 6 2013, 03:26 PM
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QUOTE(docj @ Apr 6 2013, 01:01 PM) *

I can envision future scenarios in which CG owners provide low-bandwidth internet access for free and a broadband access for an additional fee. Of course, this presumes that the CG is located where broadband access is available, but T1 and T3 (or fractional T3) lines are available in most locations. A CG owner would need to do a cost-benefit analysis of installing such a line with an assumption of how many customers would need to use it at what price in order to make it viable for his business.

For example, if you owned a 200 site CG in a year-round location and assumed that 20% of the sites were occupied by customers that were willing to pay for bandwidth capable of streaming HD video. For a month that would work out to 1200 "site-days" of usage so a $15,000 T3 line cost could be absorbed if customers were willing to pay $12.50/day for broadband usage. That's probably a bit steep if your sites rent for ~$30-40/night, but if you could get a "half-T3" line for less money, maybe the cost would be affordable.

Obviously, this example is pure speculation, but I don't think the scenario is that unrealistic. Some "urban" CG's are already in locations where Verizon FIOS could be installed which would significantly reduce the costs from my T3 example.

A T1 only provides 1.5MB up and down, so that would not be of much use in today's WiFi user environment. A T3 or OC1 would be a better choice if the CG can support the cost. We have a CG in our area that is working with a local manufacturing business on setting up a "shared OC1" system, where the factory will have the use of about 2/3 of the bandwidth during weekdays, and the CG has the balance, and on nights and weekends the ratio reverses, with the CG getting the bulk of the bandwidth. I don't know how the costs are split, but it does seem to be a viable option for keeping the costs down for both.


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WrongWayRandall
post May 30 2013, 01:43 PM
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QUOTE(JDOLLEN @ Apr 6 2013, 11:50 AM) *

I think the scenario you are painting is a bit of a red herring. I'm not a lawyer, nor do I profess to have an in depth knowledge of our legal systems but I strongly suspect that you must be in possession of said kiddie porn not just down loading it to be charged. I doubt any law enforcement officer with a lick of sense would ever consider laying such a charge against an RV Park knowing that they are just provide free internet service. Further, there are just too many other businesses such as Hotels, Motels, Librarys, Coffee Shops etc that provide free internet and I doubt that they would be exposing themselves to such a risk.

Free internet is a marketing tool. If a business chooses not to provide the service, they are just making it that much easier for their competition to take over their market.

Darrell


While I cannot comment on the porn issue, I can say first hand that the file sharing issue is no small matter to be concerned over. I work for a College and we have received multiple cease-and-desist letters from various music and movie organizations due to students using the College network to share copyrighted materials - copyright violations are no red herring, not in today's litigious world. Most libraries, hotels, and chain shops that offer 'free' WiFi now utilize hardware and/or software that attempts to detect and prevent certain types of activity in order to fend off lawsuits.

I have been in numerous discussions related to this issue and my understanding from speaking with various attorneys is that essentially there are laws in effect today that state the organization providing the service is responsible for how that service is used, and if that service is sublet, the organization doing the subletting assumes full responsibility for any criminal activity that it may be used for. Hence the need to register each device to a known identity. Then, when the legal notices start to arrive there is a verified name to hand over so that the park owners do not have to go out of business (and perhaps to prison) for something that someone did using their Internet connection.

The primary issue is that most people are not copyright attorneys so they don't fully understand the reams of small print the RIAA have gotten put into law regarding liability, copyright, licensing v.s. ownership of electronic media, etc. I have worked with organizations who have had to go to court over this very issue, and I have worked with people who's personal Internet service was terminated by their provider for illegal file sharing, so I know that it does not always go unnoticed. I would not be so quick to dismiss this problem as an RV park looking to gouge a little more money off it's customers...


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