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Vern and Ranae
I don't normally go on such a rant, but this woman just ripped us off and I thought everyone should know of it.

I took in two 30# propane tanks... each hold 7.5 gallons and have been filled many times by other establishments. At this establishment, I personally saw the attendant reset the dial to an incorrect setting before filling our tanks.

When I called him on his behavior, he said, "Ok, I will tell the main office that you only got 12.5 gallons instead of 15 in these two tanks."

I go inside to pay for the gas only to hear him on the radio tell them it was 13.5 and the lady at the front desk tells me I have to pay for a "fill charge" as they don't fill them by the gallon.

I asked her to call the park owner. Which she politely did.

That is where the polite behavior ended. I spoke to the owner Alive Oltmer and was told that the Rail Road Commission (Texas' regulatory agency for propane, gas, etc) would not let her fill the tanks differently.

This is hog wash to say the least. I am VERY familiar with the Railroad Commission as I have done work for the commission for years. Their rules and regulations are my bread and butter as a consultant actually. So this lady was lying to the wrong person.

The bottom line, I felt so uncomfortable for the sweet lady at the front desk that I paid her in full after Alice hung up the phone on me.

But it will be a cold day in ____ before I ever go back to this place.

I will be filing a BBB complaint tomorrow morning as well as a formal complaint with the Railroad Commission.

BEWARE IF YOU DEAL WITH THIS PLACE. THEY ARE THIEVES!!

I hope she enjoys the $18.00 she ripped me off for. I hope it was worth what it will cost her in the end.

By the way... their price per gallon is $3.85 which is about $1.10 per gallon more than I have paid just last week down the road in Georgetown (about 20 miles south).
Big Ben
If you feel so stongly , why didn't you write a review on the park. By the way that price is not out of line in many places.
Vern and Ranae
QUOTE(Big Ben @ Dec 23 2007, 08:13 PM) *

If you feel so stongly , why didn't you write a review on the park. By the way that price is not out of aline in many places.



we didn't stay at that park... just went there to buy lp. but I won' t do it again
Butch
Maybe the fact that you were not staying at the campground had a bearing on the prices charged to "outsiders". We have seen different prices, for "outsiders", charged for various services rendered. This may or may not be the case, but I would bet that your not staying there was a factor in the price charged.

By your posting the park is located in Texas, but what is the establishments' business name ? To be avoided, one needs the name and address.
RLM
This is a former KOA. It wasnt' very good as a KOA to start with. Unfortunately, there aren't many choices of nicer campgrounds in the near vicinity.

Notwithstanding the fact that many campgrounds have higher prices for LP, it can be purchased for much less than $3.85/gaL at several truck stops along the interstate or an independent LP retailer. That info based on my living in the area mentioned.

Send the two letters you mentioned. We don't need local businesses giving the area a negative image.
Parkview
smile.gif Hi everyone,

I will not comment on the price charged per gallon, but I will let everyone know that in Texas and many other states it is common practice to charge by the bottle for filling removable propane bottles. This is not a practice of the RV park or the campground industry, but a practice of the Propane industry. It is not required by the Texas Railroad Commission to charge by the bottle, but we are required to fill vertically oriented removable bottles by weight on a certified set of scales. We charge a flat amount (a set price ) for 10 lb., 20 lb., 30 lb. or 40 lb. bottles, regardless of how many gallons they take. We do not even reset the gallon meter when filling these bottles as it is an irrelevant number. This is the practice of the propane wholesaler that I buy from and all other wholesalers that I know of. For bottles larger than 40 lbs. net and on non-removable horizontal tanks, we do charge by the gallon.

Personally, when I fill a bottle that is obviously not empty or almost empty, I ask the customer if he is sure he wants to fill it because it will cost the same as an empty bottle to fill. It would not be worth our time to call one of our personnel certified to dispense propane on the radio to drop what he is doing to come fill a 20 lb. propane bottle and only charge for a gallon if that is what the bottle took to fill.

We sell propane primarily as a service for our customers, another draw if you will. The expenses of purchasing the dispensing equipment, of sending personnel to Austin to train and license people to legally pump propane, of dramatically increased cost of liability insurance, and of installing specialized electrical equipment and emergency cutoff switches required by the State hardly justifies our being in the propane business if our goal was to make it a profit center for our business. I hope this sheds some light on the issue.

Thanks for listening. Doug!
Texasrvers
I'm assuming we are all talking about a park in Belton, Tx, located just south of the town right on I-35. We stayed at it several years ago when it was a KOA, and I agree it was not very good. We have relatives in the area so we reserved 3 nights, but only stayed one. The very afternoon we got there we began looking for another place and found one out on Belton Lake. The COE parks at the lake are very nice. They don't have all the amenities of a high end park, but they do have electrical (some 50 amp) and water and dump stations. Their bathrooms could use a little improvement, but it is not a big deal for us because we have on board facilities. We have seen two of their parks, and they were both nice. We stayed at the one right by the dam which sits on a cliff above the lake. The other one sat right on the water's edge. If anyone needs to stay in this area I would recommed one of these COE parks. Sorry if this got off the propane topic, but I wanted to let others know there are some decent places to stay in the area.
Big Ben
Hi Doug, Thanks for the clarification. What you wrote made a lot of sense. Merry Christmas Ben
Vern and Ranae
yes, paying per bottle is fine. But the weight was wrong and the gallons dispensed was wrong as well.

My point is, they lied. They said my bottle weighed 59.5 pounds but it only weighs 51.1 pounds when I left there.

I took it to another certified scale and I will indeed be filing a complaint with the RRC. I am thoroughly upset with the way they so blatantly tried to steal from me and I'm sure others.

I can't comment on the park, but the COE and even the Tranquil Gardens park where I am at are much better than being stolen from.

Alice messed up. And I'm going to do my best to make sure she regrets it.
Big Ben
Good christen people forgive especially this time of year. You sound like you are really full of hate. Couple years down the road and it won't make any difference. rolleyes.gif
Beastdriver
Forget the psychoanalysis and it has nothing to do with christianity. The man got ripped off and he is justifiably angry. I agree with him: He should pursue it all the way.
Butch
Having read the postings here as it pertains to the re-filling of vertical propane tanks, as per the Texas Propane industry, you, the re-filler, can charge for the full capacity of that fuel container. If this is in fact the truth, all those who re-fill these vertical tanks are thieves. The consumer is paying twice or more, depending on how many times one fills his tanks, for some of the remaining propane within. One question, Parkview stated that the propane wholesaler charges him in the same manner. You mean to say that the wholesaler charges you for a full bulk tank when in fact you may have numerous gallons left in the tank when they fill your tank ???? If this is the way business is conducted in Texas, as it pertains to propane, the tourist and visitors to Texas should be made aware, as they may want to bypass Texas for a non-rip off location. And WE think New York State is bad !!!
Parkview
smile.gif Hi Butch,

I did not say that that was the way the wholesalers charged us. I said that that was the way that the Propane wholesalers that I know of charge the general public for filling removable tanks if you take the tanks to them. I have also travelled all over the country in RVs, albeit Motorhomes, but I know that this is probably the more prevalent way of charging because of a previous business that I was in. I do not consider it a ripoff; we are charging for the labor and other costs involved in filling small containers; we are not charging for the propane that they hold.

This is why travel trailers have 2 tanks; when one is empty, go fill it and run off of the other one. If anyone gets ripped off, it would be a dealer who wasted 15 minutes of time, manpower, and electricity to charge for a gallon or two of propane. especially when we are handling propane primarily as a service for our campers. I have never had a single customer who has not understood and appreciated this. In fact, we have people come from about a fifty mile radius to buy propane from us on weekends and holidays because we are open 365 days. We have filled propane after hours on an emergency basis in cold weather for people from surrounding parks, because no one else has propane because of the costs involved in getting into the business. It takes just as much insurance, training, manpower, and time to fill a half empty tank as a full one.

Thanks for considering another side.

Doug smile.gif
RLM
I have had my motor home tank refilled at three separate businesses in the area mentioned in this thread. Today, as a matter of fact, I just had my motor home tank filled with propane. All three of places that I occasionally use when I am not on the road charges a PER GALLON fee regardless of who pulls up to the pump. Two of the three are in business to primarily fill home tanks, but service all customers – to include RVs. All three have a weight scale for removable tanks and a per gallon meter for on board tanks such as is in my motor home. The customer is charged only for the propane that is purchased.

Parkview> It is admirable that you have the forethought to be available for those who need service “yesterday”. Anyone, to include myself, would happily pay for that convenience if and when needed. However, charging for “labor and other costs” and, your comment about “wasting 15 minutes of time, manpower, and electricity to charge for a gallon or two of propane” is absurd. If your local gas station differentiated between your fill up or top off with a price difference then you’d object too. Therefore, don’t be defensive if those on this website don’t take your side.

Butch> I have read and appreciated many of your comments on various subjects here on this website. I know that your feelings are to the point, mainly accurate, and sincere. However, as a native Texan, I don’t think that the comment about RVers being ripped off in Texas is accurate or appealing to those of us who know this state to be otherwise…and by the way, there’s nothing wrong with New York either.
rodman
QUOTE(Parkview @ Dec 26 2007, 04:10 PM) *

smile.gif Hi Butch,

I did not say that that was the way the wholesalers charged us. I said that that was the way that the Propane wholesalers that I know of charge the general public for filling removable tanks if you take the tanks to them. I have also travelled all over the country in RVs, albeit Motorhomes, but I know that this is probably the more prevalent way of charging because of a previous business that I was in. I do not consider it a ripoff; we are charging for the labor and other costs involved in filling small containers; we are not charging for the propane that they hold.

This is why travel trailers have 2 tanks; when one is empty, go fill it and run off of the other one. If anyone gets ripped off, it would be a dealer who wasted 15 minutes of time, manpower, and electricity to charge for a gallon or two of propane. especially when we are handling propane primarily as a service for our campers. I have never had a single customer who has not understood and appreciated this. In fact, we have people come from about a fifty mile radius to buy propane from us on weekends and holidays because we are open 365 days. We have filled propane after hours on an emergency basis in cold weather for people from surrounding parks, because no one else has propane because of the costs involved in getting into the business. It takes just as much insurance, training, manpower, and time to fill a half empty tank as a full one.

Thanks for considering another side.

Doug smile.gif


Hello Parkview.

I am from California and have a TT. When I need propane I usually take my tanks off and go have them filled before I leave. I am always charged per gallon. I have actually taken my TT in on my way out before and had my tanks topped off and still been charged per gallon. I have also been at at an RV park and had a tank filled and it was per gallon. I have never been charged by weight of a tank. We haven't traveled out of the state so I only know how they do it in California.

As always just my opinion,
denbroncs
QUOTE
Today, as a matter of fact, I just had my motor home tank filled with propane. All three of places that I occasionally use when I am not on the road charges a PER GALLON fee regardless of who pulls up to the pump.


I've been in the propane industry so I'll address the issues that I see.

1. A motorhome tank is not the same as a portable travel trailer. Yes, a motorhome is filled by the gallon - but do not be surprised to pay a minimum fee for a fill.

2. Most RV places I have dealt with charge by the size of the portable tank - not by the gallon. It would cost me $62 to fill to 30# tanks. The guy that started this thread paid under $60 for their 2 tanks - certainly cheaper than I could do locally. Don't like it? Don't refill a partially full tank.

3. My time is worth a whole lot more than the few dollars this guy is so irate about. A war worth fighting? Not in my opinion.

4. If this is the only time you've recently felt ripped off, then you haven't been to a hospital or pharmacy lately. Write a letter about that.

5. Gas over $3 a gallon? There's another thing to write about - I don't need propane everyday.

6. Bens advice was the best on the thread. But if you can't forgive - then perhaps simply forgetting might suit you.
Parkview
smile.gif

To RLM, Butch, Rodman, et al,

RLM we also charge by the gallon to fill motorhomes and all non removeable tanks at $3.15/gallon. I wasn't going to mention what we charge, but the term rip-off has been thrown around so loosely in this forum that I found it necessary. The per bottle charge only applies to standard removeable bottles of 40 lb. capacity or less. We draw from a wide ranging area because we charge less than everyone else. The per bottle charge is actually less than the per gallon charge for empty bottles. For example, a standard 30 lb. capacity RV bottle holds 7.5 gallons of propane when properly filled; we currently charge $21.50 to fill that bottle; if we charged by the gallon to fill these bottles, the charge would be $23.62. Of course our retail prices change as our our wholesale prices change, and they haven't gone down in a while. Again, I have never had a single complaint about this from a customer. Knowledgable consumers realize that we charge less than anyone else around here and I would bet a lot less than either California or New York.

If we were to charge by the gallon on these small tanks, our charge would be quite a bit more to fill an empty tank than our current charge. We would also raise our per gallon charge, probably not as high as most of you are currently paying or the $3.85 previosly mentioned, but certainly higher than $3.15/gallon. In my previous business in Virginia, I made and wholesaled fishing sinkers, jig heads, and bucktails, using propane to melt and pour aprroximately 30,000 lbs. of recycled lead per year. I was always charged a flat rate to fill my 20lb. bottles, so I simply made sure that they were empty before I filled them because it saved me money.

Believe me, we are not trying to rip-off anyone by charging this way. It is simply a matter of efficiency. If we have 5 or 6 bottles lined up to fill, we just put them on the scales, fill to the proper weight, put the next bottle on the scale, etc., etc., without ever turning the pump off or going back to reset the gallon meter.

Thanks for listening1

Doug
rodman
QUOTE(Parkview @ Dec 27 2007, 10:28 AM) *

smile.gif

To RLM, Butch, Rodman, et al,

RLM we also charge by the gallon to fill motorhomes and all non removeable tanks at $3.15/gallon. I wasn't going to mention what we charge, but the term rip-off has been thrown around so loosely in this forum that I found it necessary. The per bottle charge only applies to standard removeable bottles of 40 lb. capacity or less. We draw from a wide ranging area because we charge less than everyone else. The per bottle charge is actually less than the per gallon charge for empty bottles. For example, a standard 30 lb. capacity RV bottle holds 7.5 gallons of propane when properly filled; we currently charge $21.50 to fill that bottle; if we charged by the gallon to fill these bottles, the charge would be $23.62. Of course our retail prices change as our our wholesale prices change, and they haven't gone down in a while. Again, I have never had a single complaint about this from a customer. Knowledgable consumers realize that we charge less than anyone else around here and I would bet a lot less than either California or New York.

If we were to charge by the gallon on these small tanks, our charge would be quite a bit more to fill an empty tank than our current charge. We would also raise our per gallon charge, probably not as high as most of you are currently paying or the $3.85 previosly mentioned, but certainly higher than $3.15/gallon. In my previous business in Virginia, I made and wholesaled fishing sinkers, jig heads, and bucktails, using propane to melt and pour aprroximately 30,000 lbs. of recycled lead per year. I was always charged a flat rate to fill my 20lb. bottles, so I simply made sure that they were empty before I filled them because it saved me money.

Believe me, we are not trying to rip-off anyone by charging this way. It is simply a matter of efficiency. If we have 5 or 6 bottles lined up to fill, we just put them on the scales, fill to the proper weight, put the next bottle on the scale, etc., etc., without ever turning the pump off or going back to reset the gallon meter.

Thanks for listening1

Doug


I agree with Parkview and denbroncs, I'm not saying anything about getting ripped off. We pay around $4 a gallon, and for as often as we use the TT it's a bargain to me. Of course I don't agree with lumping hospitals all together but most you are right.

As always just my opinion,
HappiestCamper
I've only dealt with the portable bottles, and here in SC it's always a per bottle charge. You can even take it to a grocery store or hardware store, and they simply swap tanks with you. About $18.
Butch
First let me state that my intention was not to offend anyone from any location, and if anyone was, I do apologize. The fact still remains that if a business owner requests or demands monies for a product or service that he did not provide, as an example, namely existing propane within a vertical tank, this is theft, plain and simple and no one can justify it as a cost of doing business. After all I'm sure that the certified individual who fills propane tanks has other job duties to provide other services within the Rv park. It's your business and you can operate it as you see fit, but there are going to be some Rvers who are going to be on their guard and may just choose to bypass your establishment, and or others who practice the same. No clarification as to the fee charged is going to justify theft. I'm very sure that the State of Texas Attorney General would not look favorable on this business practice. Just an ex-business man's opinion !

PS:

Thanks you Vern and Ranae for bring this business practice to the attention of the Rving public.
dog bone
i asked my dealer, in hewitt, nj, why i paid $12.50 for a 20 lb and $21.50 for a 30 lb tank to be filled. they said that they don't make any money on filling 20lb's they don't even brake even. that's why they charge more for the 30's. i guess it works for them. at$ 21.50 is really not a bad price.
in ellenville, ny i paid $18.50. for a 30lb'er don't know what a 20lb'er would be. i fill them back home.
Parkview
dry.gif

Well,

I'm going to take one more stab at this. I have never stolen from anyone and feel somewhat offended that anyone would consider my providing a service for an advertised fee as theft, especially when that fee is as low or lower than than anyone else I know of. Filling portable propane bottles is governed by the laws of the State of Texas and other states as well as the U. S. Department of Transportation. Anyone who charges a flat fee for filling standard size bottles is simply charging a fee for the service of filling the bottle, not for the propane. If you get your car or RV washed, you will pay a flat fee according to the size or type of your vehicle, not according to how dirty it is or how much soap is used. Since the way we charge is authorized by the Railroad Commission of Texas, and the scales we are required to purchase and use are, by law, certified by the Texas Department of Agriculture, I can assure everyone that the Attorney General of Texas would have no objections to our standard methods. In fact, if we filled them any other way than by weight, we would be breaking the law of the State of Texas. Again, this is pretty much the Standard Operating Procedure in the propane dispensing business. It has nothing to do with the RV Park or campground industry or the policies of this park; it is the practice of the propane industry in this State and many other States (probably most states).

I could choose to charge by the gallon on these small tanks contrary to common practice, but I choose to follow the recognized practices of the industry in order to keep my per agllon prices as low as possible. My other choice would be to discontinue selling propane, but my customers who count on it would be very diappointed.

I hope this puts to bed some of the prior misrepresentations on this subject.

Please have some degree of understanding. All businesses are not trying to rip people off.

Doug dry.gif
pianotuna
Hi Parkview,

No one is calling you a thief--you post your prices and the client says yeah or nay. The issue was that the other vendor was/is blaming the rates charged on the government agencies that control the sale of propane, suggesting the Government "fixes" the price.

It certainly is very honorable of you to point out to customers with a 1/2 full tank that they should wait until the tank is more nearly empty. Other dealers may not be so quick to point that out to their clients.

I try to fill in USA when I can as the rates are much lower than in Canada. Does this mean I'm "stealing" from my local dealers? I think not.
Butch
As I can not speak to many of the other states, the northeastern states where We have purchased propane, New York, New Hampshire, Vermont and the State of Maine dispense propane by the gallon. Do they have scales, yes ! Do they sell by weight, at times yes, BUT when the customer requests the sale by volume-GALLONS- the request is honored and the charge is per GALLON delivered. Any other practice is a rip-off, and that's my opinion !
Gracie & Chloe
We spent the winter of 2003/2004 in Texas. All propane was charged at a set fee per bottle, no matter how much propane was dispensed. I was told this was per state regulations, as Parkview has stated more than once. The price per bottle varied between the different parks. I drove an extra 5 miles to save $2.50 per bottle ($13.50 vs $16.00).

In Washington, we dispense by meter at our park. Others use scales, but have to make the calculation of converting the number of pounds dispensed to gallons, and then charge the gallon rate. Our meter is checked and approved by the state annually for accuracy.
DXSMac
QUOTE(Gracie & Chloe @ Dec 28 2007, 10:23 PM) *

We spent the winter of 2003/2004 in Texas. All propane was charged at a set fee per bottle, no matter how much propane was dispensed. I was told this was per state regulations, as Parkview has stated more than once. The price per bottle varied between the different parks. I drove an extra 5 miles to save $2.50 per bottle ($13.50 vs $16.00).

In Washington, we dispense by meter at our park. Others use scales, but have to make the calculation of converting the number of pounds dispensed to gallons, and then charge the gallon rate. Our meter is checked and approved by the state annually for accuracy.



My experience is that RV parks that dispense propane usually charge more than the rate at the general economy because of the "convenience factor." At the park mentioned by "Gracie and Chloe" (which I have stayed at...), the "per gallon" charge is still pretty reasonable even with the extra pennies charged for the "convenience factor." Worth it to purchase from this park.

JJ
Parkview
QUOTE(Gracie & Chloe @ Dec 29 2007, 12:23 AM) *

We spent the winter of 2003/2004 in Texas. All propane was charged at a set fee per bottle, no matter how much propane was dispensed. I was told this was per state regulations, as Parkview has stated more than once. The price per bottle varied between the different parks. I drove an extra 5 miles to save $2.50 per bottle ($13.50 vs $16.00).

In Washington, we dispense by meter at our park. Others use scales, but have to make the calculation of converting the number of pounds dispensed to gallons, and then charge the gallon rate. Our meter is checked and approved by the state annually for accuracy.


smile.gif

Just one more clarifying statement and then I promise I will shut up on this topic.

Gracie and Chloe, The State of Texas does not require us to charge by the bottle; it only requires us to fill them by weight. This is for safety reasons so that bottles are not overfilled, which can result in catastrophic explosions. A gallon meter does not tell you when a tank is full and how much is in the tank when you begin to fill it.

How we charge, on the other hand, is up to us, and I chose to follow the pricing procedures and price levels used by my distributor. When I began selling propane, I had no idea what to charge, so I asked my distributor and they agreed to fax me their retail prices every time they change and that is what I charge. I charge the same as they do, but I make a smaller pofit margin than they do because they pay less for propane than I do.

Again, thanks all for listening.

Doug
smile.gif
Joe-n-Doe
Doug and all the rest who have contributed to this thread, Thank-You for sharing your knowledge with us.

My last TT had two 10 gal bottles and I found it only necessary to fill them once on our last 60 day trip. The trip began on April 1st and we experienced many cold nights. So between cooking and heating we were burning propane daily. Took them in to be filled in Bountiful, UT while visiting DM. One was empty the other about half empty. As I recall they charged by the gallon. I didn't find the cost to fill the 2 tanks unreasonable and that fill-up lasted a looooooooong time.

Our new rig has two 30 gal bottles. We are leaving on a 90 day cross country in April. It is good to know that some places charge by weight and others by the gallon and the reason why.

Again thanks for sharing.
rodman
QUOTE(Parkview @ Dec 29 2007, 10:32 AM) *

QUOTE(Gracie & Chloe @ Dec 29 2007, 12:23 AM) *

We spent the winter of 2003/2004 in Texas. All propane was charged at a set fee per bottle, no matter how much propane was dispensed. I was told this was per state regulations, as Parkview has stated more than once. The price per bottle varied between the different parks. I drove an extra 5 miles to save $2.50 per bottle ($13.50 vs $16.00).

In Washington, we dispense by meter at our park. Others use scales, but have to make the calculation of converting the number of pounds dispensed to gallons, and then charge the gallon rate. Our meter is checked and approved by the state annually for accuracy.


smile.gif

Just one more clarifying statement and then I promise I will shut up on this topic.

Gracie and Chloe, The State of Texas does not require us to charge by the bottle; it only requires us to fill them by weight. This is for safety reasons so that bottles are not overfilled, which can result in catastrophic explosions. A gallon meter does not tell you when a tank is full and how much is in the tank when you begin to fill it.

How we charge, on the other hand, is up to us, and I chose to follow the pricing procedures and price levels used by my distributor. When I began selling propane, I had no idea what to charge, so I asked my distributor and they agreed to fax me their retail prices every time they change and that is what I charge. I charge the same as they do, but I make a smaller pofit margin than they do because they pay less for propane than I do.

Again, thanks all for listening.

Doug
smile.gif


Hey Parkview,

Don't worry about it, as you have already figured out you aren't going to make everyone happy. The fact is you have been honest about it and that's all that matters. If someone doesn't like the way you charge or the price they call always go down the road. Keep running a nice park and you'll do just fine.

Just my opinion,
Have a Happy and very safe New Year everyone,
RLM
I guess the bottom line here is that:

1- One gets a more fair and equitable price if the removable tank is empty and that condition is up to the RV owner.
2- Government rules are made by people who don’t have any experience in the area that is being governed.

Texas has some other screwy laws that aren’t necessarily RV friendly. I mention that from a “native’s” viewpoint.

It’s good that we can bring each of the state’s negatives to the attention of the RV community so that we can deal with them as we need and want to.

I’ve learned one thing from this thread. I sure don’t want to be in the propane business.
Butch
RLM:

Very nicely put.

thank you,
Happy New Year
rodman
QUOTE(RLM @ Dec 30 2007, 11:43 PM) *

I guess the bottom line here is that:

1- One gets a more fair and equitable price if the removable tank is empty and that condition is up to the RV owner.
2- Government rules are made by people who don’t have any experience in the area that is being governed.

Texas has some other screwy laws that aren’t necessarily RV friendly. I mention that from a “native’s” viewpoint.

It’s good that we can bring each of the state’s negatives to the attention of the RV community so that we can deal with them as we need and want to.

I’ve learned one thing from this thread. I sure don’t want to be in the propane business.


Outstanding RLM, I would still like to see Texas.

Happy New Year,
BJMA
what I take from this long thread... is simple.

DO NOT BUY PROPANE AT THE CAMPGROUND or CAMP STORE...

Good there is a tool rental place down the street with a big LP tank where they fill rental equipment and motor homes. laugh.gif
countryroads
Personally I have stayed at this place before.

One of the worst places I have ever seen. The grounds are poorly kept, and the service is terrible. I would NOT recommend staying here! The owners themselves were extremely rude, as well as those who worked at the front. There are much nicer places to stay for the same price very close in the area.
rbrumfield
QUOTE(Parkview @ Dec 24 2007, 10:35 AM) *

smile.gif Hi everyone,

I will not comment on the price charged per gallon, but I will let everyone know that in Texas and many other states it is common practice to charge by the bottle for filling removable propane bottles. This is not a practice of the RV park or the campground industry, but a practice of the Propane industry. It is not required by the Texas Railroad Commission to charge by the bottle, but we are required to fill vertically oriented removable bottles by weight on a certified set of scales. We charge a flat amount (a set price ) for 10 lb., 20 lb., 30 lb. or 40 lb. bottles, regardless of how many gallons they take. We do not even reset the gallon meter when filling these bottles as it is an irrelevant number. This is the practice of the propane wholesaler that I buy from and all other wholesalers that I know of. For bottles larger than 40 lbs. net and on non-removable horizontal tanks, we do charge by the gallon.

Personally, when I fill a bottle that is obviously not empty or almost empty, I ask the customer if he is sure he wants to fill it because it will cost the same as an empty bottle to fill. It would not be worth our time to call one of our personnel certified to dispense propane on the radio to drop what he is doing to come fill a 20 lb. propane bottle and only charge for a gallon if that is what the bottle took to fill.

We sell propane primarily as a service for our customers, another draw if you will. The expenses of purchasing the dispensing equipment, of sending personnel to Austin to train and license people to legally pump propane, of dramatically increased cost of liability insurance, and of installing specialized electrical equipment and emergency cutoff switches required by the State hardly justifies our being in the propane business if our goal was to make it a profit center for our business. I hope this sheds some light on the issue.

Thanks for listening. Doug!


In WV, I have run into both situations. There is a local Exxon station that has propane that charges to fill my 30# bottles at a flat fee if they are completely empty or have propane remaining. The local feed and seed store charges by the amount of gallons that they pump into the tank totally ignoring the weight factor even though they both put the bottles on a set of scales when they fill them. When I asked why the flat fee at the Exxon station, the explanation that I received was in line with your comments about labor costs, etc. They provided it as a service to the local bar-b-que people more than anything and people rarely brought a bottle that wasn't empty. So I solved the issue by simply buying an additional tank. It sits full in the out building until needed and when one gets empty, it is replaced with the spare and the now empty tank becomes the filled spare when I get it filled. The only time I use the Exxon station is if the seed and feed is closed. It is a few more miles from my home than the seed and feed store. The feed and seed store really doesn't like to fill my 5# tank whether empty or has propane in it. It is minimal cost either way.
Florida Native
Parkview, we are heading out to TX in about 3 weeks and will make it a point to stay in your nice park, Great website and virtual tours. Probably will make it a point to fill up my propane tank also. I always try to support small businesses. Yours looks great.

Thank you
Parkview
biggrin.gif

Hi Lindsay etal,

We look forward to seeing you and having a great chat or two. We will still have many of our winter campers in the park at that time. They are some of the nicest people you will ever meet, so I know we can show you a great time. Make sure to introduce yourself when you arrive.

Doug
Butch
QUOTE(Parkview @ Jan 21 2008, 12:26 PM) *

biggrin.gif

Hi Lindsay etal,

We look forward to seeing you and having a great chat or two. We will still have many of our winter campers in the park at that time. They are some of the nicest people you will ever meet, so I know we can show you a great time. Make sure to introduce yourself when you arrive.

Doug


An introduction will not be necessary as Lindsay Richards will be the individual asking, "is there a lower rate"? Just an observation relating to past postings.
gwbischoff
Ok, I'll bite.

What about filling propane tanks that aren't removable?

My Winnie is just about out and haven't had to fill her up yet. (One of the benefits of being from So Cal and doing a lot of warm weather travel). Should I just expect to pay per gallon or am I likely to encounter some sort of fill charge?
denbroncs
QUOTE(gwbischoff @ Jan 24 2008, 05:49 PM) *

Ok, I'll bite.

Should I just expect to pay per gallon or am I likely to encounter some sort of fill charge?


You will likely pay a per gallon fee - but I have encountered places that will have a minimum charge of $10 or $15. It does "pay" to check first.
gwbischoff
QUOTE(denbroncs @ Jan 25 2008, 01:50 PM) *

QUOTE(gwbischoff @ Jan 24 2008, 05:49 PM) *

Ok, I'll bite.

Should I just expect to pay per gallon or am I likely to encounter some sort of fill charge?


You will likely pay a per gallon fee - but I have encountered places that will have a minimum charge of $10 or $15. It does "pay" to check first.



That's what I thought.

Is there any other way to gauge how much is left in a fixed tank apart from my instrument panel which just gives me a light telling me the 'general fullness'? I know they have those little strips that you can put on the upright tanks but I haven't seen any for a fixed tank.

I know I'll fill up somewhere beforehand, but I don't want it to go "phhiiit" on me in the middle of Yosemite next month.
Parkview
biggrin.gif
Hey G.W.

I can't speak for everyone, but for us and almost everyone I know of, there is no minimum fill charge on non-removeable horizontal propane tanks. We charge by the gallon for actual number of gallons pumped. In addition to your on-board monitor, every such tank that I have seen has a level guage on the tank itself that can be read with the propane compartment door opened. They often stick and are not perfectly accurate, but I have found that a simple finger thump will often unstick them.

Doug
denbroncs
QUOTE
Is there any other way to gauge how much is left in a fixed tank apart from my instrument panel which just gives me a light telling me the 'general fullness'


If you are referring to a fixed tank on an RV, there is a gauge on the tank. That is, in fact, a lot more accurate than the "light" inside the RV - which is almost always off.
1KAMPER
I WOULD JUST LIKE TO SAY THAT IF YOU WOULD CHECK FLYING J WEB SITE YOU CAN FIND OUT WHAT PROPANE SELLS FOR IN YOUR AREA AND I FIND THAT IT IS MOST HELPFUL AND CHEAPER TO GET IT AS I GET FUEL FOR MY TRUCK
ddbradley952
QUOTE(rodman @ Dec 31 2007, 09:20 AM) *

Outstanding RLM, I would still like to see Texas.

Happy New Year,

Texas has lots of GOOFY laws; like if a burglar comes in to your house, you can shoot him on site!
Texasrvers
QUOTE(ddbradley952 @ Oct 5 2008, 11:36 PM) *

Texas has lots of GOOFY laws; like if a burglar comes in to your house, you can shoot him on site!



Hell yes! What would you do? Invite him to sit down and have a cup of coffee??? And I've also heard that if he is coming in through a window he better have at least half of his body inside before you shoot him or he is considered still outside and not an intruder. Now that's goofy.
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