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RL36
I was talking to some friends who are full and part time Rver's who were saying how these fuel prices are completly out of conrtol and draining them,how they a few years ago were looking forword to retirement,seeing grandchildren and traveling our beautiful country at will,but with the price of gas/diesel so high and getting higher it is almost impossible for them to enjoy what they worked so hard for .Actually one of them may have to sell there RV becouse of it,its so sad. Iknow this sounds crazy but for us Rver's retired or not who want a better life for our familys like spending time with them doing something we love doing and for those who are ritired and worked so hard for all those years to enjoy that one thing that we all have in common,Rving,I wish there was a special fuel price nothing outrages but something so we can afford what we all love to do "RV"! Just a thought,everyone be safe and if your near Mooresville NC please dont hesitate to drop a line,my wife,daughter and I are always willing to meet new Rver's.Thanks.........Richard biggrin.gif
John Blue
Richard,

My home town is Mount Airy on Hwy 52 and we drive I-77 from time to time to visit our old home. Fuel PRICES are up, food cost is up, our power bills are up, and same with everything we buy. One stop at Flying-J will cost me $300 plus dollars if our tank is not to low. That is the price we all pay and add in inflation plus our weak dollar to the mix and we all have a problem. On tour in England years ago one soft drink about 8 oz was $2.50 US, more now. I stopped working back in 2000 and have been on the road from that time to now. We have plans to travel around the earth and in our motorhome as long as we can go. Yes, this will cost more each year but that is life. Now go out and find a good campground and have some fun. This will cost you more next year. tongue.gif
gwbischoff
I wouldn't hold my breath for the oil companies to give anything away for free.

A short little anecdote should explain why I feel that way.

There's a Mobil station very close to our house. I have three cars and our motorhome. I take our MH there before or after our trips because it's easy access in and out and as a result I take our cars there as well. The sum total is about 130 gallons of gas when I fill 'em all up.

A few days ago, I took our Suburban in to fill up (about $100 a pop these days) and as I went to pull the trigger it came off in my hand. As I looked at it, I noticed that it was wrapped in electrical tape. So, I went inside and showed the girl behind the register, explained to her what happened and said that it was pretty apparent that this hadn't been the first time it had been broken.

I went back out and pulled the truck around to another pump and as I placed the nozzle back into the tank the girl shoved her cell phone at me and said "Could you speak to my manager?".
I got a sudden chill down my spine because I guessed what was coming.

"Could you leave a deposit so that it can be fixed?"

I was dumbfounded.

To make a long story short, I removed the nozzle from my tank and haven't been (nor ever will go) back.

The moral of the story kiddies, is the days of getting anything for free from Big Oil are over.
RL36
ohmy.gif Im not saying to get anything for free,how about a break so some can enjoy retirement or spending time with there familys a little easier,its all just a crazy thought on a special RVer's price. As of today oil prices reached $100 a barrel (thats insane). That 100 gallon tank is now going to cost you well over $300 dollars.And I know the oil companys dont care about us,they have an excuse for every price hike. Were at there mercy....................it sucks.
gwbischoff
QUOTE(RL36 @ Jan 2 2008, 06:55 PM) *

ohmy.gif Im not saying to get anything for free,how about a break so some can enjoy retirement or spending time with there familys a little easier,its all just a crazy thought on a special RVer's price. As of today oil prices reached $100 a barrel (thats insane). That 100 gallon tank is now going to cost you well over $300 dollars.And I know the oil companys dont care about us,they have an excuse for every price hike. Were at there mercy....................it sucks.


They'll keep chargin' and we'll keep payin'.

I've always said that the day that they pump the last drop of oil from the ground that GM will introduce its new Suburban that runs on donkey crap and ExxonMobil will have bought up every donkey on the planet.
RL36
laugh.gif That was so funny,I was laughing so hard my wife asked whats wrong whats so funny,so I showed her your reply and she said that is so true.Anything to benifit the oil companys and screw us over. Im starting a donkey farm wanna be business partners....Ha ha laugh.gif
gwbischoff
QUOTE(RL36 @ Jan 2 2008, 08:15 PM) *

laugh.gif That was so funny,I was laughing so hard my wife asked whats wrong whats so funny,so I showed her your reply and she said that is so true.Anything to benifit the oil companys and screw us over. Im starting a donkey farm wanna be business partners....Ha ha laugh.gif


biggrin.gif


Think about it...

Four years ago, how many of us even heard about "Hybrid Vehicles"? Now every single manufacturer has one type of gas-hybrid, flex-fuel vehicle in their lineup. Hell, there's one in my driveway.

If there's money to be made, someone will figure it out.

I even read in the last issue of "Motorhome" magazine that someone is coming out with the first gas-hybrid, solar powered Class A.

Keep the donkeys handy, tho..
RLM
What I'd like to know is why the oil companies get away with charging way more for diesel than gas. Diesel is the first cut of the refining process and is cheaper to make than gas. the trucking industry puts up with it because they are passing along costs to retailers who pass it along to us.

As a retiree, it's getting to the point where I am not going to be willing to put the money into owning and traveling in my motor home. The basic costs of being a full timer last year was an avg. of $2100/mo. So I think to myself of how many different pleasure trips I can take for that using other means of travel and lodging. It would only cost me $2800 to go to Europe for 10 days, $1800 to Hawaii, and $1200 for a seven day cruise. Perhaps one pleasure trip a month for the same full time RV expenses would be just fine.

I've been able to get a few part time jobs while traveling to pay for some of the expenses, but the words job and retire are anonymns. You can't officially be both at the same time.

It ain't gonna get any better until we get past the wacko environmentalists who keep us from being an energy self sustaining country.

Anyone want to buy a motor home?
gwbischoff
QUOTE(RLM @ Jan 3 2008, 02:23 PM) *

What I'd like to know is why the oil companies get away with charging way more for diesel than gas.


The answer you seek lies deep inside an old fable. Passed down through the centuries. It is a riddle wrapped inside an enigma.

I believe it was the Greek, Aesop who asked the question:

"Why do dogs lick themselves?"

Find the answer to this question and the truth will become apparent, Grasshopper.
RL36
With oil company's making record profits, and gas to hit $4.00 a gallon by the end of February,where does that put diesel prices $4.25 a gallon. RV sales are at all time low's becouse of fuel prices. And like those friends of mine who have to sell there motorhome becouse they cant afford to full time it anymore.Its very sad.The one thing they talked about for so many years and it has to come to an end.It looks like no one wants to stand up to the oil companys and say something about it. "Why do dogs lick themselves"?
Beastdriver
I can solve the problem of "Why do dogs lick themselves" by substituting a few words, i. e., "Why do Congressmen lick themselves. Because of money from big oil." Come to think of it, I should not disrepect dogs like that and I apologize to the dogs, but not to the Congressmen or the oil companies. A weak, spineless, do-nothing Congress has allowed us to sink into this hole by not taking action in and after the 70s, after the first oil "crisis." I guess it just takes all their time collecting donations from big oil.
gwbischoff
Q:What I'd like to know is why the oil companies get away with charging way more for diesel than gas?

Q:Why do dogs lick themselves?

A: Because they can.
wpr
Q:What I'd like to know is why the oil companies get away with charging way more for diesel than gas?

This is a good question. Here in Canada diesel is generally cheaper than gas, except sometimes in winter when it's competing with heating oil. My truck (Dodge Dakoto, I know, just a toy truck) has a gas engine because Mr Dodge did not see a market for Dakotas with diesel engines, but my car, a VW Golf , has a diesel engine. I can't for the life of me understand why so few people by cars with diesel engines. With their low end torque they are so much fun to drive, (especially accelerating at a traffic light and seeing the faces of people in cars you left behind), cold weather starting hasn't been a problem for 15 years now, noise and particle pollution is a thing of the past, the mileage one gets is incredible, (how does 700 miles on 14.5 Us gal. sound, with the cruise control at 73 mph), so what is the reason?

Somebody calculated that if only 20% of American cars were running with a modern diesel engine we could tell Mr Hugo Chavez to put his oil where the sun don't shine. Now would that be fun or what?

When I was in Europe last September, around 50% of private passenger vehicles were diesels, do they know something we don't? By the way, my Golf with the diesel engine cost me all of 300$ more than the gas engine.

There is another thread here about oil changes, the manufacturer recommended interval on my Dakota with the 4.7 ltr V8 is 5000 km, it holds 5 ltr of oil. For the Golf the interval is 12 000 km, it also holds 5 ltr of oil for a 1.9 ltr engine.

So I guess it all comes down to the most ancient law of all, supply and demand. If we all use 10% less we might see prices come down, provided that our dear governments make sure there is genuine competition. But maybe that's too much to ask from the governments?
RL36
If the American and Japanese auto manufactures came out with an up to date diesel engine that gave you the kind of fuel milage yours does they would charge a fortune for it.They say if you buy a hybrid vehicle it would take you about 15-20 years to make up the higher cost of that hybrid in fuel savings,now who keeps there cars that long.So imagine what they would charge for an econamical diesel engine and how long it would take to save the money it cost you to buy that new diesel car. I heard that it cost the oil co 15 cent per gallon to refine each gallon of fuel,5 cents per gallon to transport it and about 15-20 cents per gallon for other costs,the rest is profit.They say the oil co are making 50-60 cents per every dollar we spend at the pump that = huge/record profits. And if they were to put that money back into updating there refineries and not passing that back on us they would save money in the long run becouse those refineries are so old and inafitiant.But knowing the oil co they would raise the price of fuel to be able to re-do there refineries.So shouldnt they lower it in a time of need like now or should they still keep taking advatage of us like they always do? dry.gif
wpr
RL36,
For your information, the American and Japanese automobile manufacturers do have modern, clean and efficient diesel engines in Europe, simply because if they didn't they would be out of 50% of their market. These diesel engines cost a few hundred dollars more to buy, just like any other optional engine. With the number of diesel engines sold in Europe, per unit cost of building them comes down dramatically, and with the number of cars using diesel fuel all as stations want to have diesel pumps. With the number of diesel pumps there is competition for market share and nobody dares to charge more for diesel than for gas, it is actually at least 10% cheaper than gas in most places. Add that to the 30% better mileage you get and the initial investment of a few hundred buck is back in your pocket very quickly.
Beastdriver
All the discussion about gasoline versus diesel is interesting, but it missses the point in my opinion. Gasoline and diesel are both oil-based fuels. We should pay attention to the Brazilians. Back in the 70s when we had the first oil "crisis" and were lined up at the pumps to pay twice the normal cost for fuel, the leaders of Brazil said "never again" and they very wisely embarked on an ethanol program using sugar cane, an annually renewable resource. Now, every car in Brazil (and there are millions--big country) runs on ethanol OR gas, but ethanol is SO much cheaper nobody buys gas. Furthermore, the Brazilians developed ways to burn the sugar cane residue left over after conversion into ethanol, and it now powers most of their power plants. But, obviously, such a plan requires initiative, guts, and a spine, something our leaders don't seem to have. Many years ago, President Kennedy said that the US would put a man on the moon by a specific date, and we stuck to it. Where is that kind of commitment and dedication today. It is shameful!
wpr
Beastdriver,

you are right in pointing out that both diesel and gas are oil based and that ethanol could be one of the keys to lesser our dependence on oil-based fuels. On the other hand diesel technology is here now and permits a roughly 30% reduction in fuel consumption. Right now there are many initiatives worldwide to get more ethanol or biodiesel on stream.

If we put our minds to it, with the right political leadership, we could pull this of easily. (ref: Kennedy & putting a man on the moon) I suppose we can also do our part individually by using fewer ressources. It should be possible to use 10% less gas for example without a massive change in our way of life. Do we really need a second snowmobile or a third waverunner for example? So if we use less fuel and at the same time develop alternative cleaner fuels, in 10 years time we might be able to kiss goodbye all the foreign potentates that are propped up by our dependence on their oil. From what I can see the missing link here is the political part, with our respective governments controlled by special interest groups....
John S.
Ok guys, I feel your pain. I have too many trucks and jeeps and 2 motorhomes. One is a small class c instead of a new car and the big Foretravel. It costs me 300 buck or more to fill it up. Now this is how you deal with it. If fuel is your biggest expense you hedge it.I know many retired people jus tleave the money in CD or bonds and say I do not want risk. I can not afford to loose money. Wellyou areloosing money as purchasing power of your savings decline.. Why you ask. Lets look at a 4 percent cd. If you get 4 percent and the taxes fed adn state are 25 percent you have 3 percent. Now you inflation rate is 3.1 or higher and you are behind the 8ball. If you have a higher tax state like NY or CA you are even worse. We allknow fuel prices when up more than 3 percent. SO I went out and bought a basket of energy stocks. I got VLO at 33 and it went up and split and bought exxon and apache or you can just buy the index. If you sell a bit off as it rises up you will offset the increasing cost of fuel. IF the prices fall take a bit more money that year and buy some more. It has worked. GO to yahoo finance and look if you started buying them about 3 years ago you do not worry about fuel prices as much. It is what the airlines do in a way hedging the price of fuel in the futures market trucking firms like fed ex and ups do it. why not RVers..

The only thing we have to fear is fear it self.
Beastdriver
John:

With all due respect, you oversimplify. Financial institutions do, indeed, pay ridiculously low rates because it is much simpler for them to borrow from the Federal Reserve at very low rates (subsidized by the taxpayer), all the while avoiding the cost of branches, tellers, other personnel, etc., and, given the inevitable rise in prices plus taxes, savers almost always lose money over the long term. At the same time, your example does not include taxes you must pay on energy stocks when you sell them, brokerage fees, and the loss of income on the funds you use to buy the energy stocks. But these facts are really not the reason I disagree with you: There is an old adage in investing: The greater the risk, the greater the reward. Most folks in the age bracket where they are retired and have a motorhome simply cannot afford the risk of investing in volatile stocks, and if there was ever a volatile commodity, it is oil. I am not an airline or a trucking company and I don't have millions to play around with. So I'll just put my money into CDs, get what I can (I average more like 6% to 7% and not the 4% you mentioned), and grimace everytime I visit the fuel pump. I dislike it, but I dislike the risk of your method even more. Just my opinion.
tallyo
If RV'ers got a special gas price I wonder how upset those folks who drive to work everyday to support their families would feel???

I wonder if the government got involved in regulating oil company profits, how many more companies would or should be government regulated? Then maybe we could be like Venezuela and have everything government regulated..

Just a thought!
HorizonQueen
I have two thoughts on this matter of diesel prices versus gas prices in the US: 1. Lobbyists don't drive motorhomes or anything that may have a diesel engine. If they did the price would not be this high. 2. Could there possibly be an arrangement with OPEC and the US that keeps these gas/diesel prices soaring and large oil companies shutting down the refineries only to reduce supply and increase demand which translates into higher prices paid by the rest of us? Case in point: BP - a large refinery near Houston has had several deadly explosions in last 15 months. Yet, they have been shutting down production for so called safety improvements and other "necessary" upgrades during these same 15 months. BP is not US owned but I find it suspect. I wonder how they will explain to the wife of the man who was killed in the most recent explosion (during the holidays) exactly how this works.

Note to gwbischoff: Hope you took a picture of the defective gas pump nozzle and sent it to OSHA or anyother federal watchdog and let the manager know so he will be dumbfounded, too. wink.gif
gwbischoff
QUOTE(HorizonQueen @ Jan 22 2008, 12:04 AM) *

I have two thoughts on this matter of diesel prices versus gas prices in the US: 1. Lobbyists don't drive motorhomes or anything that may have a diesel engine. If they did the price would not be this high. 2. Could there possibly be an arrangement with OPEC and the US that keeps these gas/diesel prices soaring and large oil companies shutting down the refineries only to reduce supply and increase demand which translates into higher prices paid by the rest of us? Case in point: BP - a large refinery near Houston has had several deadly explosions in last 15 months. Yet, they have been shutting down production for so called safety improvements and other "necessary" upgrades during these same 15 months. BP is not US owned but I find it suspect. I wonder how they will explain to the wife of the man who was killed in the most recent explosion (during the holidays) exactly how this works.

Note to gwbischoff: Hope you took a picture of the defective gas pump nozzle and sent it to OSHA or anyother federal watchdog and let the manager know so he will be dumbfounded, too. wink.gif


I didn't take a picture,but I did fire off a letter to ExxonMobil and cc'd Mobil Speedpass and the station itself. That was over a month ago.

Would you care to hear their collective responses?

Ok, here it is:

[chirp] [chirp] [chirp] [insert other quiet sound here]

Nothing. Nada. Not "we're sorry", not "we stand behind our employee's actions", not "kiss my @$$".

Nothing.

Go ahead. Ask me again if big oil will hand out discounts for gas.
Butch
QUOTE(gwbischoff @ Jan 22 2008, 02:46 PM) *

QUOTE(HorizonQueen @ Jan 22 2008, 12:04 AM) *

I have two thoughts on this matter of diesel prices versus gas prices in the US: 1. Lobbyists don't drive motorhomes or anything that may have a diesel engine. If they did the price would not be this high. 2. Could there possibly be an arrangement with OPEC and the US that keeps these gas/diesel prices soaring and large oil companies shutting down the refineries only to reduce supply and increase demand which translates into higher prices paid by the rest of us? Case in point: BP - a large refinery near Houston has had several deadly explosions in last 15 months. Yet, they have been shutting down production for so called safety improvements and other "necessary" upgrades during these same 15 months. BP is not US owned but I find it suspect. I wonder how they will explain to the wife of the man who was killed in the most recent explosion (during the holidays) exactly how this works.

Note to gwbischoff: Hope you took a picture of the defective gas pump nozzle and sent it to OSHA or anyother federal watchdog and let the manager know so he will be dumbfounded, too. wink.gif


I didn't take a picture,but I did fire off a letter to ExxonMobil and cc'd Mobil Speedpass and the station itself. That was over a month ago.

Would you care to hear their collective responses?

Ok, here it is:

[chirp] [chirp] [chirp] [insert other quiet sound here]

Nothing. Nada. Not "we're sorry", not "we stand behind our employee's actions", not "kiss my @$$".

Nothing.

Go ahead. Ask me again if big oil will hand out discounts for gas.


Just a thought, maybe they were just to busy to reply, as they were counting their profits. Surely a sad state of affairs, the fuel situation, that our elected representatives have allowed to occur, (over the years). They should be very proud of themselves !!!
gsbogart
[quote name='Beastdriver' date='Jan 6 2008, 03:43 PM' post='9799']
John:

With all due respect, you oversimplify. Financial institutions do, indeed, pay ridiculously low rates because it is much simpler for them to borrow from the Federal Reserve at very low rates (subsidized by the taxpayer), all the while avoiding the cost of branches, tellers, other personnel, etc., and, given the inevitable rise in prices plus taxes, savers almost always lose money over the long term. At the same time, your example does not include taxes you must pay on energy stocks when you sell them, brokerage fees, and the loss of income on the funds you use to buy the energy stocks. But these facts are really not the reason I disagree with you: There is an old adage in investing: The greater the risk, the greater the reward. Most folks in the age bracket where they are retired and have a motorhome simply cannot afford the risk of investing in volatile stocks, and if there was ever a volatile commodity, it is oil. I am not an airline or a trucking company and I don't have millions to play around with. So I'll just put my money into CDs, get what I can (I average more like 6% to 7% and not the 4% you mentioned), and grimace everytime I visit the fuel pump. I dislike it, but I dislike the risk of your method even more. Just my opinion.


Beastedriver

Do us all a favor and tell us where we can buy CD's that return a rate of 6-7% average.....
gwbischoff
For all of you sitting on the edge of your seats wondering what response I've gotten from ExxonMobil, I've included it in the text below.

And I quote:

"












"
Butch
QUOTE(gwbischoff @ Mar 11 2008, 05:22 PM) *

For all of you sitting on the edge of your seats wondering what response I've gotten from ExxonMobil, I've included it in the text below.

And I quote:

"
"



The silence speaks "volumes" doesn't it......
gwbischoff
I was feelin' all nostalgic and everything and decided to look through some old posts and I found this one.

I harkened back to yester-year and yearned for the day, way back in January of '08, when I could fill up my Suburban for the ol'-tyme sum of $100.

Six months later and it's $165 and climbing.

Ah yes. Good times. Good times.
DXSMac
QUOTE(gwbischoff @ Jun 25 2008, 12:17 PM) *

I harkened back to yester-year and yearned for the day, way back in January of '08, when I could fill up my Suburban for the ol'-tyme sum of $100.

Six months later and it's $165 and climbing.

Ah yes. Good times. Good times.


I tried to make it less painless by filling up when tank reaches half empty...... ONE HUNDRED FREAKING DOLLARS FOR HALF A TANK?????? Two years ago, $100 filled the entire tank! I almost lost it in my pants on that!

JJ
RL36
ohmy.gif We have friends here from N Ca and they are heading back home next week from NC. They said its going to cost them about $3000 dollars in diesel fuel just to get back. "OUCH"!!! This is there last trip in there MH they said its to expensive, SAD!!! sad.gif
gwbischoff
Glad to see my boycott had its desired effect: dry.gif

"Exxon breaks US profit record"

http://blogs.moneycentral.msn.com/topstock...profit%20record
RL36
sad.gif Poor Exxon! sad.gif This is how they look at us......... laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif ..suckers....!!!
campingandtravels.blogspot.com
Here's what we do when we can - we're Costco members and have gotten in the habit of going to Costco's website & see if there are any Costcos with gas in the area , or on the route we're taking to our next destination. We don't go too far out of our way to find a Costco, but we do make a concerted effort to seek them out - have found it much less expensive than anywhere else! smile.gif

Suzanne & Brad
www.campingandtravels.blogspot.com
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