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HappiestCamper
Okay, I've never used wifi at a CG before. I just got a Droid yesterday, and am at a CG where wifi is included. I connected to it, and it is ridiculously slow. I disconnected, and am really enjoying the 3G network instead. If you must have internet when you are at a CG because of work, don't rely on someone else's connection, bring your own.
Galli
QUOTE(HappiestCamper @ Nov 7 2009, 12:58 PM) *

Okay, I've never used wifi at a CG before. I just got a Droid yesterday, and am at a CG where wifi is included. I connected to it, and it is ridiculously slow. I disconnected, and am really enjoying the 3G network instead. If you must have internet when you are at a CG because of work, don't rely on someone else's connection, bring your own.

Well your proposal may be applicable for locals but, as an example, I am coming from Canada and it would be too expensive to contact my provider for the service.
I am still of the opinion that, IF INTERNET SERVICE IS PROVIDED, it should be some thing accessible to every one and not to e selected people only.
Florida Native
QUOTE
If you must have internet when you are at a CG because of work, don't rely on someone else's connection, bring your own.


You were unlucky the first time. If you surf and look at video's, I have found that WiFi is usually much quicker. Once again, get an antenna.
keoweerv
I think it should be free
spinsister
QUOTE(HappiestCamper @ Nov 7 2009, 02:58 PM) *

Okay, I've never used wifi at a CG before. I just got a Droid yesterday, and am at a CG where wifi is included. I connected to it, and it is ridiculously slow. I disconnected, and am really enjoying the 3G network instead. If you must have internet when you are at a CG because of work, don't rely on someone else's connection, bring your own.



You are also lucky to be at a location where there is actually 3G service... Trust me 3G and even 2G is NOT available everywhere. When you're not in a 3G zone (depending on the network it can be as soon as you leave city limits! ATT!) your speeds are no better than dialup, I've seen worse.
RV Camper
It also depends to some degree upon what data service you choose. At this time Verizon has the best coverage with Sprint running close behind. AT&T is our cellular provider but I chose to get an air card for Verizon because they are just too far behind on coverage.

The other thing that we have found is that by using a cellular repeater it greatly extends the area where we can use both our Verizon data card and our AT&T cell phones when in rural areas.
20andOut
Let me start my post with, I use a USB WiFi 1000mw amplifier with a 9dbi antenna on my laptop, also an antenna amplifier on my cell phone so I can access the internet while I am on the road or parked in a campground. One of the reasons I select a campground for an overnight or extended stay is if it has WiFi or not. Unfortunately, most times we are disappointed because the Wifi range is limited or not working.

A properly configured router using QoS can eliminate people from doing large downloads, this would eliminate people from abusing WiFi and allow everyone to use the system. The problem with most sites is that the people running the campground are relying on someone else to setup the Wifi that may not be familiar with advanced wireless configurations.

I donít have a problem paying for internet but I resent paying for internet that has poor connectivity.
kcmoedoe
QUOTE(20andOut @ Dec 4 2009, 01:05 PM) *

Let me start my post with, I use a USB WiFi 1000mw amplifier with a 9dbi antenna on my laptop, also an antenna amplifier on my cell phone so I can access the internet while I am on the road or parked in a campground. One of the reasons I select a campground for an overnight or extended stay is if it has WiFi or not. Unfortunately, most times we are disappointed because the Wifi range is limited or not working.

A properly configured router using QoS can eliminate people from doing large downloads, this would eliminate people from abusing WiFi and allow everyone to use the system. The problem with most sites is that the people running the campground are relying on someone else to setup the Wifi that may not be familiar with advanced wireless configurations.

I donít have a problem paying for internet but I resent paying for internet that has poor connectivity.

The only problem with rationing bandwidth is some people believe if they are connected to wifi, they should be able to do whatever they want or the system is bad. Read all the reviews that blast campground wifi systems for being slow, rationed or having limited bandwidth. It is impossible to please all people. If a campground configured their system to prevent large downloads you can bet that a review would soon appear here slamming the park for having a wfi system that is inadequate.
Florida Native
[/quote]If a campground configured their system to prevent large downloads you can bet that a review would soon appear here slamming the park for having a wfi system that is inadequate.[quote]

We have already had a campground owner stating he does this and I would be one complaining about it if it was slow.
Lonesoldier
Why is it called camping if you require WIFI? rolleyes.gif rolleyes.gif
Florida Native
QUOTE(Lonesoldier @ Dec 6 2009, 07:16 PM) *

Why is it called camping if you require WIFI? rolleyes.gif rolleyes.gif


Many of us camp for months at a time and need WiFi for business and entertainment purposes. I do all of my banking and bill paying online. I get most of my news from the internet. I really didn't need it when I took the Boy Scout troop out for the weekend, but when we are gone from Feburary through June, it is nice not to have my electricity, gas, and water shut off when I return. Camping has different definations for all of us and since we are all "campers" we must understand what we all do. The availability of WiFi had exploaded in recent year. The service various a huge amount. Happy Camping.
grim509
I can understand why the full-timers and others want WIFI. Admittedly, it is nice to have to check weather, find things to do in the area, etc. On the flip-side, I understand why many (if not most) do not require WIFI access.

I think WIFI should be extra, pay for usage, but have a hotspot near the store, or rec room somewhere. This way, if you want it at your site, you can pay for it and have it, or you can run up to the rec room to do what you need to do real quick. A hotspot is easier to install and maintain rather than having good WIFI connection throughout the park, especially if it's a larger, spread out park.

My reasoning for this is, nothing is free. If they don't charge extra for connectivity, but offer it for "free," it's added to the cost for EVERYONE, including those who don't use it.

Asking for it for free would be like me asking for all five kids for free. Most CGs charge extra for anything more than the 2 adults and 2/3 kids. It wouldn't be fair for you to pay extra to cover the costs of me having more kids, and it wouldn't be fair for the campground to charge everyone extra for WIFI.

Just my two cents.
pianotuna
Hi grim509,

I've never agreed with extra charges for extra people. I'm a "one price" kind of guy. I don't use the meeting halls, and rarely use a pool--but I don't mind them being included in the price.

I'm fairly sure that running a pool of any size dwarfs the cost of wifi.
lucky2
WiFi is nice to have but the security issue needs to be addressed- I have stayed at two capmp Grounds where it was a known fact that the manager snooped in on people's web browsing and read emails.( This took place at Serendipity RV Park in Palacious,Tx and Country Livin RV Park in Foley,Al.)
If there was a way to have internet/WiFi and have it be on a secure net it would be great.
By the way-
It is NEVER legal to snoop and read emails-EVER.All of the managers of RV Parks read the following-Snooping in on emails is a felony and is punishable by up to 5 years in prison with up to a 250,000. fine.

-Computer Crime (page 2) | National Notary Association
Explain that snooping in other people's e-mail may lead to civil and criminal ... "People don't expect their e-mail to be read by others, but e-mail lives on for a ...
www.nationalnotary.org/news/

Stored Electronic Communications Provisions of ECPA
<12> Access to electronic communications in storage comes under the Stored Electronic Communications provisions of the ECPA, which prohibits the unauthorized access to stored communications, such as electronic mail, and disclosure of the contents.16

Federal Wiretap Act
<10> Interceptions of electronic communications in ďreal timeĒ come under the federal Wiretap Act. That Act provides that any person who intentionally intercepts an electronic communication is guilty of a felony and subject to a fine of up to $250,000 and imprisonment for up to five years ohmy.gif

All RV Park managers with WiFi read adn heed-Being a manager does NOT give you the right to snoop and read the email of those staying at your park.Not only is it wrong it can and will get you fined,put in jail and or sued.
kcmoedoe
QUOTE(lucky2 @ Mar 6 2010, 05:55 PM) *

WiFi is nice to have but the security issue needs to be addressed- I have stayed at two capmp Grounds where it was a known fact that the manager snooped in on people's web browsing and read emails.( This took place at Serendipity RV Park in Palacious,Tx and Country Livin RV Park in Foley,Al.)
If there was a way to have internet/WiFi and have it be on a secure net it would be great.
By the way-
It is NEVER legal to snoop and read emails-EVER.All of the managers of RV Parks read the following-Snooping in on emails is a felony and is punishable by up to 5 years in prison with up to a 250,000. fine.

-Computer Crime (page 2) | National Notary Association
Explain that snooping in other people's e-mail may lead to civil and criminal ... "People don't expect their e-mail to be read by others, but e-mail lives on for a ...
www.nationalnotary.org/news/

Stored Electronic Communications Provisions of ECPA
<12> Access to electronic communications in storage comes under the Stored Electronic Communications provisions of the ECPA, which prohibits the unauthorized access to stored communications, such as electronic mail, and disclosure of the contents.16

Federal Wiretap Act
<10> Interceptions of electronic communications in ďreal timeĒ come under the federal Wiretap Act. That Act provides that any person who intentionally intercepts an electronic communication is guilty of a felony and subject to a fine of up to $250,000 and imprisonment for up to five years ohmy.gif

All RV Park managers with WiFi read adn heed-Being a manager does NOT give you the right to snoop and read the email of those staying at your park.Not only is it wrong it can and will get you fined,put in jail and or sued.

I am curious just how the RV park accomplished this, and how you know. Such activity requires a fairly high degree of technical proficiency. Be aware, however, that the RV park does have some potential liability if guests of the park use their system to preform illegal activities. For example, if a guest downloaded child pornography over the park's wifi system, the park could face potential prosecution for distributing pornographic material. Legally, the park has the right and potentially even the obligation, to monitor and assure that it's server is not being used to conduct illegal activity. Also, businesses frequently monitor bandwidth usage to assure their users are not downloading large files that would slow down their system or are being accessed by computers that are distributing spam etc. There is a big difference between tracking the IP addresses and websites being accessed by computers on a server and reading the actual traffic being sent over that system. Many commercial WiFi systems have software that will alert the system owner when certain websites and certain types of traffic move over their server. Without further information, I would think this is the more likely scenario, not a wifi system owner reading actual traffic.
wduke
I am a seasonal at a cg in N.H. they just installed wifi. It was a $5000 investment up front for the cg and it only reached about half the sites. They have recently installed boosters to send the signal to the rest of the cg. Most of the time you get a good 4-5 bars, but sometimes you don't and it is slow. The cg charges $5/day-25/week, they also have monthly and yearly deals also. Depending on your needs its not a bad deal. More and more privately owned campgrounds are closing down and/or corporations are buying them up. The big corp. can afford to advertise free wifi but like it was said before, nothing is free and you are paying for it one way or another. I rather pay for the service I recieve and not have to pay for the service I don't want ( free wifi already added into your rate).
Galli
QUOTE(kcmoedoe @ Mar 7 2010, 11:53 AM) *

I am curious just how the RV park accomplished this, and how you know. Such activity requires a fairly high degree of technical proficiency. Be aware, however, that the RV park does have some potential liability if guests of the park use their system to preform illegal activities. For example, if a guest downloaded child pornography over the park's wifi system, the park could face potential prosecution for distributing pornographic material. Legally, the park has the right and potentially even the obligation, to monitor and assure that it's server is not being used to conduct illegal activity. Also, businesses frequently monitor bandwidth usage to assure their users are not downloading large files that would slow down their system or are being accessed by computers that are distributing spam etc. There is a big difference between tracking the IP addresses and websites being accessed by computers on a server and reading the actual traffic being sent over that system. Many commercial WiFi systems have software that will alert the system owner when certain websites and certain types of traffic move over their server. Without further information, I would think this is the more likely scenario, not a wifi system owner reading actual traffic.

Interesting your answer, kcmoedoe, I am not challenging you but I would like to know how a camp site could be responsible for some thing perpetrated by a camper. I don't know the law in USA, however, the internet provider is dealing directly with the user, not with the camper and it appears to me that,if the resort is scrutinizing this facility it is like listening to a telephone conversation without authorization.
Or there is some provision in USA that allows otherwise ?
HappiestCamper
QUOTE(Galli @ May 19 2010, 10:50 AM) *

Interesting your answer, kcmoedoe, I am not challenging you but I would like to know how a camp site could be responsible for some thing perpetrated by a camper. I don't know the law in USA, however, the internet provider is dealing directly with the user, not with the camper and it appears to me that,if the resort is scrutinizing this facility it is like listening to a telephone conversation without authorization.
Or there is some provision in USA that allows otherwise ?

But they're not listening to anything. If you use a phone in a hotel, they're going to keep a log of what number you dialed, what time you started the call, and how long the call lasted. Likewise, they are also going to log which IP's you went to and at what time. They're not looking at what is on the site, they are just protecting themselves. They probably have a list of IP's that they already block (and probably amount of bandwidth). It would be reasonable to assume a CG would do the same thing.

Just like a bartender can be held liable if someone gets drunk at their bar then drives and causes a wreck - if you give someone the tools to do anything nowadays, you are responsible. First lesson they taught us in Business Law - you go after the one with the deepest pockets.
kcmoedoe
QUOTE(Galli @ May 19 2010, 08:50 AM) *

Interesting your answer, kcmoedoe, I am not challenging you but I would like to know how a camp site could be responsible for some thing perpetrated by a camper. I don't know the law in USA, however, the internet provider is dealing directly with the user, not with the camper and it appears to me that,if the resort is scrutinizing this facility it is like listening to a telephone conversation without authorization.
Or there is some provision in USA that allows otherwise ?

You are responsible for the traffic that runs across your router. Businesses are required to conduct a certain amount of due dillegence to make sure their equipment (router, network and access points) are not being used for illegal purposes. The standard is not very high, but most wifi providers have a disclaimer you sign off on (the click here to agree to the policy button). They also use filters and blocks on certain websites. Also, they monitor the IP addresses traffic is being sent to to prevent spam from being sent (if 100,000 IP addresses are accessed in an hour it is a pretty clear sign that the customer isn't surfing the net or sending photos to friends.) If a business is not dillegent in maintaining security of their networks, they can be held liable. In a campground situation, they are providing open access to their routers and network, a liability situation clearly exists, hence the disclaimers and filters and monitors. They would most likely be monitoring bandwidth usage with an automatic notification if there was a potential problem from extreme usage or repeated attempts to access blocked sites.
Galli
QUOTE(kcmoedoe @ May 20 2010, 09:36 PM) *

You are responsible for the traffic that runs across your router. Businesses are required to conduct a certain amount of due dillegence to make sure their equipment (router, network and access points) are not being used for illegal purposes. The standard is not very high, but most wifi providers have a disclaimer you sign off on (the click here to agree to the policy button). They also use filters and blocks on certain websites. Also, they monitor the IP addresses traffic is being sent to to prevent spam from being sent (if 100,000 IP addresses are accessed in an hour it is a pretty clear sign that the customer isn't surfing the net or sending photos to friends.) If a business is not dillegent in maintaining security of their networks, they can be held liable. In a campground situation, they are providing open access to their routers and network, a liability situation clearly exists, hence the disclaimers and filters and monitors. They would most likely be monitoring bandwidth usage with an automatic notification if there was a potential problem from extreme usage or repeated attempts to access blocked sites.

.I have nothing to hide, therefore, I don't mind this intromission and I understand the main reason for these controls that should cut down electronic pornography and other illicit transmissions, however, considering the long range aspect of the fact, I see that the privacy of the individual is going to hell.
My concern is not for the police to monitor illegal traffic but for unethical people (i.e. RV camp administration or internet provider Ö.people with personal interest .. etc..) exploring and then taking advantage of the information. I shall give you an example, if your doctor send you an E-mail confirming or postponing your treatment for, let say cancer, or, your lawyer for your divorce, this information in the hands of an improper person may be harmful.
Mine is not a complaint but a statement
As an example I wish to quote what happen recently in Europe, it appears that an employ of a very important bank was able to get posses of the names and account number of more than 70,000 people and then attempted to sale the information to illicit market.
I don't know if this action could have been prevented but it remains the fact of improper access to electronic information
pawman
The economy, hits everyone and every business. I think you should be charged for the wifi service, if you are going to use it, everything cost money. Campgrounds are in the business to make money if they do not they will not be there to enjoy. Put the shoe on your foot would you work or give your product away for free. Remember you get charged different prices based on your site's amenities.
rgatijnet
We stayed at one park that required you to register with an online service to use their WIFI. The service itself was free, up to a point. This meant that for normal surfing, emails, etc, the WIFI was free. BUT, if you wanted to download a large file, such as a movie, you had to then pay an extra charge. I felt this was not only fair, but it was a smart thing to do at the park. As some on here have posted, downloading movies is becoming a more common thing to do while on the road. I have no problem with that, but most people do not realize that doing this can quickly overload the bandwidth and download speed and it can basically cripple the WIFI connection for the rest of the people in the park that wishes to just check their email, etc. I do not remember the upcharge, if you exceeded the free download amount, but I do know that it required you to enter a credit card number to continue.
Patster1234
One time I was cut off from wifi at campground because I did not know that downloading movies used a lot of bandwidth and I was downloading several episodes of either 24 or Lost. Since that time I am careful to try and limit my time online to emails etc. I am wondering if watching a tv episode on network sites (ABC, NBC or CBS) is also using a lot of bandwidth??

Also on this topic of wifi in campgrounds, I find it annoying to see wifi advertised and then find out it is only available at the building. I understand the cost is a lot to have a good system installed but it just seems kind of deceptive to say wifi is available.

Stripes
QUOTE(drmcleod @ Jul 18 2008, 04:18 PM) *

Should Campgrounds charge for Internet access?

I would like to get other opinions on this.

My opinion is no! I have two reasons for this.

First, as a consumer. Having free internet access is actually one of the things I look for in a campground. It's a 'perk' if you will. If I have the choice between two, somewhat comparable, c/g's then I will choose the one with free WiFi. Heck, I'll even choose the one with free WiFi over one that is slightly nicer with fee for service.


I don't really care if it is free, or extra cost so long as the price is listed on the campgrounds website. If one campground is $40/night + $15/night WiFi and another is $50/night with free WiFi then I can figure if I do buy WiFi the $50/night one is cheaper.

I don't like it at all if a place says free WiFi, but they mean "it is free for a half hour, then you can pay $15/day". I don't know if it is actually illegal, but it feels wrong, shady, and dirty.


QUOTE(drmcleod @ Jul 18 2008, 04:18 PM) *

Second, as a business owner (of which I am one). It does not cost more to allow the whole campground access to your broadband service. The only additional expense is the addition of the hardware. In some cases this might be more expensive if additional antennas are required and installation requires an expert. Also, a higher than basic internet subscription is needed. However, if the c/g is going to charge for its WiFi service, then all of this has to be done anyway. Therefore, consider it a marketing expense to drive more people to your c/g. Why do you think that places like Panera Bread and even McDonald's are offering free WiFi? I know I choose to eat there when I need a place to surf while I eat. In my case, I want more people to come to my place of business, so I make my wireless service available to all. It costs me no more, but brings more people to me.

What do you think?


As you said, it does cost more to offer WiFi to a whole campground, and the more folks use it the more it costs you (50 people can't share a T1's worth of bandwidth and be happy, but 3 people can). When you offer WiFi for free then everyone who wants to use it will. When you offer it for $15/day only people that really want it will use it, so you will have fewer users. You can buy enough bandwidth to make them happy for less money. Their individual payments might even manage to break even.

You also may be able to find some company that will install WiFi for you and manage it, and pay for it if only you let them charge your customers. That might be a great deal for a campground.

So "WiFi available" might be a LOT less costly then "WiFi FREE".

Less costly isn't always better though, it MIGHT be better to spend more and be able to say FREE! It also might be just too much extra money.
brep
Come on Jack, We want to pay 1/2 price and for you to give us everything that the full price parks have included. Oh, and I would like a pull thru that is dead level and has no trees to go around please.


quote name='Just Jack' date='Aug 30 2008, 02:24 PM' post='13012']
I am a owner of a RV park and have read through most of the postings in this forum. I have considered free wifi. I think there are more factors involved. One of the main factors is location of the park, is it a remote location where satillites are required to receive a signal or is where a DSL or cable line available to the property. We have to use satillites which is very expensive therefore we charge for wifi. Guests need to consider this before demanding free services.
A couple of posting here come to mind. Is if fair to have free wifi and charge the same space rent to the person who doesn't use it or do I give that person a discount. I say no. If a park offers options when you arrive pick the ones you want to pay for them. If they charge for cable and you have a satillite do you need the cable, no, so you don't pay for it. If you have you own internet satallite do you want wifi, no. Pick the from the options offered and pay for them. One posting said they were at a park that had free wifi and the park had $50 router off of a computer in the back room that worked perfect. Is that a secure conection?
Another issue is most RV'ers traveling more than a week a year have a pocket full of discount cards. Good Sam to Passport America, AAA, etc. all wanting a better rate and full survices included. So everyone throw away your discount cards and pay the published rate and I will give you free wifi.
[/quote]
Florida Native
All of the discount cards you mentioned have to be joined by the park owner before the camper can use any of them. My suggestion would be, if you don't want RV'ers to use discount cards, then don't sign up for the programs. This would keep all those pesky customers with a handful of discount cards away from your park and over at your competitors park. I know the PPA and Good Sam indicates that the Rver isnít to receive a stripped down site for their discount. Discounting is a way to increase occupancy. I donít think you can assume that if you donít give that discount, then the RVer is going to stay and pay the full price. I know I donít. It is a competitive world out there and discounting can bring in folks you wouldnít have ever seen if you didnít.

The owner (in NE) I revered to had a home type router hooked up to cable and was very fast. He gave us the password when we checked in. Not sure why you would think we needed a secure site at a campground. If I am going to do banking, my bank provides an encrypted, secure site all the way to my keyboard. You will see the https in the address line (instead of the http.) My router at home isnít secure either.
greentootsie
QUOTE(drmcleod @ Jul 18 2008, 06:18 PM) *

Should Campgrounds charge for Internet access?

I would like to get other opinions on this.

My opinion is no! I have two reasons for this.

First, as a consumer. Having free internet access is actually one of the things I look for in a campground. It's a 'perk' if you will. If I have the choice between two, somewhat comparable, c/g's then I will choose the one with free WiFi. Heck, I'll even choose the one with free WiFi over one that is slightly nicer with fee for service.

Second, as a business owner (of which I am one). It does not cost more to allow the whole campground access to your broadband service. The only additional expense is the addition of the hardware. In some cases this might be more expensive if additional antennas are required and installation requires an expert. Also, a higher than basic internet subscription is needed. However, if the c/g is going to charge for its WiFi service, then all of this has to be done anyway. Therefore, consider it a marketing expense to drive more people to your c/g. Why do you think that places like Panera Bread and even McDonald's are offering free WiFi? I know I choose to eat there when I need a place to surf while I eat. In my case, I want more people to come to my place of business, so I make my wireless service available to all. It costs me no more, but brings more people to me.

What do you think?


i think that they shouldn't charge for the fact that the camp ground where i stay at is called fishermans retreat and they charge 2 dollars a day and 10 dollars for 7 days and the internet is very slow running at a wopping 13KB's it's unbelievably slow and i get disconnected all the time i tried talking to the person who sets it up and he said they offer 1.5 mbits and I dont get that speed i wish they would take away the crappy internet and offer something good atleast if they are charging 10 dollars a week
AFChap
If they charge, it needs to work throughout the entire RV park, and work WELL. I will notk pay for WIFI unless I am not in a Verizon cellular area because I have paid too many times for "service" that rarely worked, or did not work at all. My cellular broadband is faster than 99% of the RV park WIFI I have used around the country, and my cost is $1 per day. Give me good and reliable service at $1 or less per day, and I would be happy to use it.
Bob-Linda
Well put AFChap, I agree 110%.

We have a roof mounted DataStorm satellite dish for our Internet and it works about 99% of the time. When I know we are going to a park that is known for its "shade", read satellite blocking trees, and they advertise Wi-fi and cable TV they better both be awesome in every aspect, and exactly as advertised.

My take on charging separately for Internet is that nine times out of ten the service is terrible, and leads to a closer look at other aspects of the park that ultimately end up in the comments about the park and an overall lower rating. Things i might choose to overlook in other parks. As fulltimers for many years, we've seen enough parks to know when to oh and ah, versus when to realize the owner is trying to pull a fast one.
Florida Native
I got my Radio Wave set up to be usable on my new Windows Seven Computer. Didn't have it last time and it really hurt. Really easy to use now. Not having a WiFi antenna really limits you in RV'ing.
rockfarmer
I have no problem with a campground charging exrea for wi-fi or for routing the user to a third party - as long as the campground is up front with it. DO NOT andvertise having wi-fi and then stick the camper with the extra charge.

Or, IMHO, worse don't advertize free wi-fi but claim that it is broken and can't get anyone to service it. And don't advertise it and have it available in a very limited area. With technology available today, good systems are not that expensive and can be repaired quickly and easily by competent service people.
Galli
I might not be up to date but it seems to me that the telephone, the Internet and other facilities which are not used by everyone in a camp, should be optional, therefore, as separate charge since, including them as part of the general service will increases the fee pro capita.
I was reviewing the statement of the gentleman in this chat in which it is stated that, afterwards it is not extremely expensive for the camp owner.... afterwards I have a business on my own...etc..
Well, the statement is not really applicable to every business, it might be convenient to him to provide such kind of freebie in your line of business but you cannot pretend that every one should adopt your line of thought.
Other subject that I have to agree with the camp owners is the limitation of people to each trailer and exceeding that number it implies an additional charge .
I wish to clarify that, I AM NOT A CAMP OWNER but whatever is reasonable should be considered as fair.
Back to the original issue, yes I am for a Internet's user charge but when the Internet service is provided, it should be really operational.
PDWSR
There is an additional cost to the CG owner for WiFi if the use is sub-distributed to others as in campgrounds, above the cost of service to an office computer and so forth. There are tiered services as with any internet services provided by nearly all providers the faster the more costly. In light of this one should remember profit is why a CG is in business.
"IMO" a CG can easily add a 2 tier service slower free service and a faster premium service for those which may have a need for this service such as $2.00 per day additional for short term people $1.00 per day additional for longer than 7 days. Of course if a CG wants to charge premium rates for their sites it would be pure stupidity to not provide a fairly speedy WiFi service. All CG should give log ins as "Free Loaders" only slow the total system down.

Like others here DO NOT advertise WiFi unless designated Free or Available @ additional charge.
WiFi at CG's is not a large deal for us as we use Cellular tethering nearly 100% of the time when service is available.

PDWSR
RV Camper
I am amazed by just how heated this subject seems to be. I think that the majority of full-time RV folks carry some means of getting internet with them and so probably feel as I do that we would prefer not to help to pay for those who don't have such service to get internet. We shop for an RV park by the price they charge for the services that we use and really care not at all what services they may offer which we choose not to use and whether or not they charge extra to those who do use them. Thus a park which has a lower base price but charges extra to use the internet connection will tend to attract us over one that charges all of us a higher price that includes internet. I really do not care if it is free or even available as I don't have any need for it, but I won't pay more to stay were others have access to it.

It amazes me that so many downplay the cost to the RV park of providing such services. To have good coverage of a larger RV park requires the use of some very expensive equipment, not just the simple router that we use in our homes or RVs. In addition, if the park has many large trees or other obstructions they will need multiple hot spots or some sites will have poor coverage. It use to be that a phone line in the office where folks could go to connect long enough to get email was all that was needed in an RV park, while today we want high speed internet at any site we choose and we want unlimited access to it. In peak periods, this will mean that parks will require a great deal of band width in order for everyone to have reasonably good speed for surfing. Many users today regularly download movies and that requires a lot of bandwidth and it don't come cheaply.

Why should everyone be required to help to pay for the heavy user who plans to watch a move to night and want to connect to NetFlicks?
rgatijnet
QUOTE(Kirk @ Feb 27 2011, 09:16 PM) *

I am amazed by just how heated this subject seems to be. I think that the majority of full-time RV folks carry some means of getting internet with them and so probably feel as I do that we would prefer not to help to pay for those who don't have such service to get internet. We shop for an RV park by the price they charge for the services that we use and really care not at all what services they may offer which we choose not to use and whether or not they charge extra to those who do use them. Thus a park which has a lower base price but charges extra to use the internet connection will tend to attract us over one that charges all of us a higher price that includes internet. I really do not care if it is free or even available as I don't have any need for it, but I won't pay more to stay were others have access to it.

It amazes me that so many downplay the cost to the RV park of providing such services. To have good coverage of a larger RV park requires the use of some very expensive equipment, not just the simple router that we use in our homes or RVs. In addition, if the park has many large trees or other obstructions they will need multiple hot spots or some sites will have poor coverage. It use to be that a phone line in the office where folks could go to connect long enough to get email was all that was needed in an RV park, while today we want high speed internet at any site we choose and we want unlimited access to it. In peak periods, this will mean that parks will require a great deal of band width in order for everyone to have reasonably good speed for surfing. Many users today regularly download movies and that requires a lot of bandwidth and it don't come cheaply.

Why should everyone be required to help to pay for the heavy user who plans to watch a move to night and want to connect to NetFlicks?




I agree. I want a lower price for an overnight stay if I don't use the pool at the park, or the club house, or the dog area, the cable hook-up, or any of the other amenities. laugh.gif
joez
QUOTE
I want a lower price for an overnight stay if I don't use the pool at the park, or the club house, or the dog area, the cable hook-up, or any of the other amenities


Perhaps as a user this might seem like a good plan, except the concept of policing dog area, pool, cable, bath house, etc use might become burdensome. But as a business model wouldn't it make more sense to attract those willing to pay for the amenities, ie all or none? For instance, if it were your cg with say 100 spaces full every night would you want 100 @ $40 or 60 @ $40 and 40 @$25 (those that do not use pool, dog area, etc). IMO the only reason to try to attract the lower price client would be if you cannot fill your land otherwise. Sometimes, I think we lose sight of the fact that a campground is not in business for any purpose other than to make as much money as possible. Only a masochist would run a business for any other reason - it is too hard to do.
rgatijnet
QUOTE(joez @ Mar 1 2011, 10:58 PM) *

Perhaps as a user this might seem like a good plan, except the concept of policing dog area, pool, cable, bath house, etc use might become burdensome. But as a business model wouldn't it make more sense to attract those willing to pay for the amenities, ie all or none? For instance, if it were your cg with say 100 spaces full every night would you want 100 @ $40 or 60 @ $40 and 40 @$25 (those that do not use pool, dog area, etc). IMO the only reason to try to attract the lower price client would be if you cannot fill your land otherwise. Sometimes, I think we lose sight of the fact that a campground is not in business for any purpose other than to make as much money as possible. Only a masochist would run a business for any other reason - it is too hard to do.


It was a sarcastic remark to people who do not like to pay for things they may not use. If you want to go that route, then why draw the line at WIFI? Most State and Federal Parks off close to zero amenities. Most commercial parks have to offer amenities to attract customers. Right now, WIFI is used by more people than not so to offer it is an advantage to other parks that offer nothing.
jan-n-john
QUOTE(rgatijnet @ Mar 3 2011, 04:25 PM) *

It was a sarcastic remark to people who do not like to pay for things they may not use. If you want to go that route, then why draw the line at WIFI? Most State and Federal Parks off close to zero amenities. Most commercial parks have to offer amenities to attract customers. Right now, WIFI is used by more people than not so to offer it is an advantage to other parks that offer nothing.

I continue to wonder why it is so many think there ought to be a separate charge for WiFi but have no problem that there is almost never a separate charge for the pool. Providing a pool is far more expensive, brings high liability issues, and involves far more labor from the cg owner than does wifi. It would be easy to institute a special charge for its use, and is probably used by a smaller percentage of clients than the wifi. . Further, wifi is taking on the characteristics of a utility, like water and sewer; but I know of no cg that charges extra for those.

Could ask the same question about the cable TV.

So why is wifi such a big deal, when the others aren't?
kcmoedoe
QUOTE(jan-n-john @ Mar 15 2011, 09:43 PM) *

I continue to wonder why it is so many think there ought to be a separate charge for WiFi but have no problem that there is almost never a separate charge for the pool. Providing a pool is far more expensive, brings high liability issues, and involves far more labor from the cg owner than does wifi. It would be easy to institute a special charge for its use, and is probably used by a smaller percentage of clients than the wifi. . Further, wifi is taking on the characteristics of a utility, like water and sewer; but I know of no cg that charges extra for those.

Could ask the same question about the cable TV.

So why is wifi such a big deal, when the others aren't?

WiFi isn't inexpensive to provide and it is easy to set up a separate charge for it. That makes it a perfect candidate for it to be an optional charge to give the business the opportunity to make some revenue directly off a service. It is hard to control access to a pool, to the water, sewer etc. Electricity is often billed seperately for longer term stays. I don't care one way or another, I look at the total picture and have options other than park wifi if I need it. It just really doesn't matter to me.
RV Camper
QUOTE
I agree. I want a lower price for an overnight stay if I don't use the pool at the park, or the club house, or the dog area, the cable hook-up, or any of the other amenities
I take it that you can't grasp the reason that some folks park at Wal-Mart or a truck stop either?

Escapee's have 19 RV parks that offer an area with no hook-ups at all. They charge $5/night and those facilities are very popular. Commercial parks could do that same thing and a few of them do. Most of those who stay in parking lots would happily pay a small fee for a place away from the road with no amenities at all, but the practice of trying to supply everything to everyone by raising the price to where it pays is a major factor in people moving to the nearest parking lot to stay with no fee.

If park owners need to offer more amenities to attract customers, then perhaps they could do that same thing by offering an area with none at all?
dalsgal
We had an area somewhat like that for a while. Those people that didn't need water or sewer would pull out of the cheap spot and pull into a place to fill their tanks and dump their sewer when they thought no one was looking. They also walked their dogs, often without clean up, they used our dumpsters and/or left their trash at their site. One couple left 5 huge trash bags of trash. They also didn't understand why they couldn't use our WiFi and the rec hall. All those reasons, plus insurance liability, overhead of office staff checking them in all add up to more than a nominal cost. Actually 9 out of 10 of those people using that area were the most rude and obnoxious and demanding of all our campers.
yousah
I think it just needs to be cheaper. $10-15 per day is way too expensive. Should be closer to $2-3. There are different tiers of internet service available and large parks would need a higher level subscription to handle massive data needs. I get the impression that some smaller parks probably just have the same type of service that most of us have in our home and are probably violating the terms of service by letting others log onto it.

Nonetheless, we camp at a Yogi Bear near our house that has nearly 500 sites and they charge $10 per day for internet. They are pulling in thousands of dollars and there's enough money for profit while still keeping it at a lower cost. Most campers will use internet to stay in touch and not likely be logged on for long periods of time.
Wink
QUOTE(dalsgal @ Mar 17 2011, 08:47 PM) *

We had an area somewhat like that for a while. Those people that didn't need water or sewer would pull out of the cheap spot and pull into a place to fill their tanks and dump their sewer when they thought no one was looking. They also walked their dogs, often without clean up, they used our dumpsters and/or left their trash at their site. One couple left 5 huge trash bags of trash. They also didn't understand why they couldn't use our WiFi and the rec hall. All those reasons, plus insurance liability, overhead of office staff checking them in all add up to more than a nominal cost. Actually 9 out of 10 of those people using that area were the most rude and obnoxious and demanding of all our campers.


The reason they were obnoxious and demanding was they were grumpy cause they were hot and sweaty with out A/C and a good hot shower. rolleyes.gif
Parkview
QUOTE(Kirk @ Mar 17 2011, 06:15 PM) *

I take it that you can't grasp the reason that some folks park at Wal-Mart or a truck stop either?

Escapee's have 19 RV parks that offer an area with no hook-ups at all. They charge $5/night and those facilities are very popular. Commercial parks could do that same thing and a few of them do. Most of those who stay in parking lots would happily pay a small fee for a place away from the road with no amenities at all, but the practice of trying to supply everything to everyone by raising the price to where it pays is a major factor in people moving to the nearest parking lot to stay with no fee.

If park owners need to offer more amenities to attract customers, then perhaps they could do that same thing by offering an area with none at all?


Kirk,

That sounds great in theory if a park has unlimited land. But if a park has used all land available to them, it would be a waste of precious space to provide sites with no hookups, which could not be used by people needing or wanting hookups. As a destination park, we get very few overnighters, and in our hot summer months in Texas when we are full, there is no way that we could rent sites without hookups.

When we first built our park 12 years ago most rigs were 30 amp; now most by far are 50 amp rigs. With the trend moving toward 50 amp rigs when we built, we put 50 amp service to all sites when we built the park because a 50 amp rig can't use a 30 amp site, but a 30 amp rig can use any site. Neither can use a site with no hookups in 100 degree weather.

Doug
Florida Native
We have stayed at Wal-Mart at least 100 times and it has very little to do with the money. It is all about convenience. Easy in, easy out, buy supplies, usually walk to dinner. We usually buy their gas before we hook back up. The Allstays smart phone app has most independent campgrounds and most Wal-Marts and if they allow camping or not as well as text directions and a map hooked to GPS. If we are in very cold weather like now in ND, we usually stay stay at a park so we can get power to run the electric heat which works down to about 38 degrees. We have a 50 33 ft Itasca and are able to keep cool in very hot weather . Many modern coach have a power management system that will shut things down in order to keep both compressor working. We are at a 30 amp place now (Lincoln Park in Bismarck, ND). We were running 26 amps with both compressors running on reverse cycle. When my wife turned on the microwave, one compressor shut off while it was on.
Florida Native
A note to campground owner what campers like me will be doing. I am now using my Android Verizon when I don't have campground WiFi. We take a lot of photos and I save the full version (4,000 KB) to my hard drive and then reduce down to about 60 kb to post onto our website. I have Carbonite online backup. It would take forever to post these large photos to the webs, so I will get onto the campground WiFi as I go to bed and upload them as I sleep. It will shut off automatically when it finishes. I presently have about 500 of these large files to backup on Carbonite. This will eat up a lot of data on your system. I thought that you might be interested to know as online backup is becoming very popular. Carbonite cost only $55/year for unlimited storage.
AFChap
QUOTE(Lindsay Richards @ May 16 2011, 08:52 AM) *

It would take forever to post these large photos to the webs, so I will get onto the campground WiFi as I go to bed and upload them as I sleep. It will shut off automatically when it finishes.

Excellent example (along with watching movies/TV over the internet) of why campground WIFI too often doesn't work well for those who want to do email & browse the web. Some savvy campground owners know this, and put limits on bandwidth hogs.
Florida Native
I also don't empty my black and gray tank at every campground. I wait until they are full and empty them at one campground after 4 or 5 days. I guess that makes me a bad person too? Maybe a sewer hog?
joez
QUOTE
Excellent example (along with watching movies/TV over the internet) of why campground WIFI too often doesn't work well for those who want to do email & browse the web. Some savvy campground owners know this, and put limits on bandwidth hogs.


Exactly. What is reasonable for one person (OK to download pics/movies, etc) is wasteful to another. That is why campgrounds need to install limiting methods or a system large enough to satisfy everyone. Extra charges for using above a minimum are probably the most effective way. We have seen campgrounds threaten to kick customers out who use Skype, Netflix or other high bandwith uses - don't know how they enforce or if it is an empty threat. We have stayed at campgrounds where the system automatically shuts down for you once you use your alloted amount.

Asking me to limit bandwidth so others can share is kind of like asking me to buy a Prius and save gasoline so a developing country like Bangledesh has gas to use. I conserve when it is to my benefit (save money). I recycle when it is easy and to my benefit. I am too simple minded to try to save the world or save some campground bandwidth for others to use, especially when I cannot tell how much is the right amount to save. We supply our own unlimited data through the use of a smart phone hot spot. Depending on reliable campground WiFi is too much a crap shoot for us.

JMO




Florida Native
Maybe we should be assigned times for showers in our coaches to keep up the water pressure for everybody else. We don't want these water hogs around.
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