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RFCN2
Doci - you are correct. At this time getting TV via the internet is problematic for "campers" for the most part. The big four wireless people make huge money owning their delivery systems and I don't see them going back to unlimited data with the exception of Sprint. And some have old Verizon unlimited plans, like me. So far I have not bothered to use my Verizon data plan to watch TV. I did test it out on one show, works well.

I am not sure this one Netflix show is a harbinger of the future. I don't think Netflix can afford it.

In a fixed location we have changed the way we watch TV at home. We mostly watch on demand shows from the HBO library and then year old stuff from Netflix. But on the road it is not so easy to get fast internet still.




QUOTE(docj @ Feb 2 2013, 10:45 AM) *

If you aren't already aware of it, yesterday Netflix put online an entire 13-episode new series entitled "House of Cards" starring Kevin Spacey. Although we have already watched the first two shows and have enjoyed them, the reason for this post is simply to point out that this event took place. It appears to be the first time an expensive show with a well-known cast has gone this route, bypassing the HBO, Showtime channels which would have been a more normal venue. Netflix is hinting that this may be only the first of a whole line of "made for streaming" TV content. What's made this even more unusual is that Netflix has made the entire series available at once, no waiting until next week to watch the next episode.

Of course, the implications of this to the entertainment industry are enormous. Essentially, a content provider (a movie producer) has bypassed the entire distribution system and is providing commercial-free content to those willing to pay the intermediary (Netflix) to stream it to them. It's the next logical step beyond the "on demand" process we have become accustomed to.

Once technological evolution like this begins it is hard to stuff the genie back in the bottle, so I expect, over time, we will see more of this not just by Netflix, but maybe also by Amazon and others. This has huge implications for internet providers, campground operators, etc, since it will stress the data-handling capacity of their networks. Sure, nothing has really changed since people can already stream video, but if first-run content becomes more available via streaming they are going to be frustrated if they discover they can't spend their weekend "camping" trip watching a marathon of their favorite shows episodes. Yet another problem for campground owners to wrestle with. As if the question of "free wifi" wasn't difficult enough to deal with on its own.

docj
QUOTE(RFCN2 @ Feb 2 2013, 03:17 PM) *

Doci - you are correct. At this time getting TV via the internet is problematic for "campers" for the most part. The big four wireless people make huge money owning their delivery systems and I don't see them going back to unlimited data with the exception of Sprint. And some have old Verizon unlimited plans, like me. So far I have not bothered to use my Verizon data plan to watch TV. I did test it out on one show, works well.

I am not sure this one Netflix show is a harbinger of the future. I don't think Netflix can afford it.

In a fixed location we have changed the way we watch TV at home. We mostly watch on demand shows from the HBO library and then year old stuff from Netflix. But on the road it is not so easy to get fast internet still.


I agree things won't happen overnight, but IMHO this is where they are headed. We are lucky enough to have an unlimited Verizon 4G plan so we have used it for streaming. If you can get a decent data connection >2Mbps it works well. Data usage is ~1GB/2 hours at SD quality, so someone with a 10GB/mo plan can watch several movies while on a weekend camping trip. If your plan charges $10/GB for excess usage that's not really all that much more than it costs to watch an on-demand movie on DirecTV.

Data prices on the cellular system will, inevitably, come down just as have "per minute" prices. Some 20 years ago I bought a cell phone for a college-age son who had to drive long distances through some rough country to come home from school. I recall his plan cost ~$10/mo for 10-15/minutes of service and a awful lot for excess usage. It's hard to imagine that wasn't all that long ago.
Lindsay Richards
On our recent RV trip, we camped for 3 days at a Passport America camp ground that advertised they had WiFi. We asked for a site with good reception. They showed up as having reception (3 or 4 bars), but we could not connect. My Smart Phone did the same thing. The next day, I asked numerous other campers and they all said the same thing. We asked the owner to correct and they didn't have a clue. I think it just needed a reboot. Many of these campground rely on vendor for the whole thing and evidently they can charge by the call.
docj
QUOTE(Lindsay Richards @ Apr 16 2013, 10:18 PM) *

On our recent RV trip, we camped for 3 days at a Passport America camp ground that advertised they had WiFi. We asked for a site with good reception. They showed up as having reception (3 or 4 bars), but we could not connect. My Smart Phone did the same thing. The next day, I asked numerous other campers and they all said the same thing. We asked the owner to correct and they didn't have a clue. I think it just needed a reboot. Many of these campground rely on vendor for the whole thing and evidently they can charge by the call.



Several times I've been successful asking CG managers if they would reboot the wifi. Since there is no risk to them by doing it, I haven't encountered any resistance to my suggestions.
Glenn Norton
QUOTE(docj @ Apr 17 2013, 07:52 PM) *

Several times I've been successful asking CG managers if they would reboot the wifi. Since there is no risk to them by doing it, I haven't encountered any resistance to my suggestions.


I have asked staff to do a reboot so many times that I've lost count. I think I'm batting around 50% success in getting connected. If I got a dollar for every time staff have told me that they don't know anything about the Wi-Fi setup I would be a rich man indeed. biggrin.gif
Lindsay Richards
This doesn't work when the campground manager thinks the computer is a TV hooked up to a typewriter. It is the advantage of the "computer guy" to come out and get paid for a service call rather than teach them. I have talked to campground folks who did not even know their own server password. Not the password to their web site available for campers, but the password to start up their own server/computer.
puddleduck
QUOTE(Glenn Norton @ Apr 18 2013, 05:46 PM) *

I have asked staff to do a reboot so many times that I've lost count. I think I'm batting around 50% success in getting connected. If I got a dollar for every time staff have told me that they don't know anything about the Wi-Fi setup I would be a rich man indeed. biggrin.gif


If I had a dollar for each customer who has asked me how to connect to a wireless network I guess we'd both be rich.
kcmoedoe
QUOTE(puddleduck @ Apr 23 2013, 09:00 AM) *

If I had a dollar for each customer who has asked me how to connect to a wireless network I guess we'd both be rich.

I wouldn't doubt that several of the times I have been bumped off a perfectly good Wifi connection in the middle of a download was because some "internet expert" convinced the park to reboot their connections.
Lindsay Richards
A savvy park owner should know not to reboot on one complaint. When nobody in the park can get a connection for days, something is bad wrong and future business can be hurt via review sites. It pays to deliver what you advertise and it hurts to not due so.
Texasrvers
QUOTE(Lindsay Richards @ Apr 23 2013, 10:43 AM) *

A savvy park owner should know not to reboot on one complaint.


Probably true, but we were at a park recently that we were having a lot of trouble connecting to their wi-fi. I called the office, and the desk person said they had not had any other complaints which they would have been getting if the problem was with their system. (They had quite a few long term residents who reported trouble quickly.) However, he said he would reboot (I didn't even ask him to; he just said he would try that). After that we had no more trouble, so I'm glad that in this instance, he did not wait for more complaints.
puddleduck
Our park is in a very rural area and the only internet available is satellite. We have the highest level of service plan that is available. (and it's not cheap) If we exeed our bandwidth limit (33 gig per rolling 30 days) the ISP will simply shut us down.
We don't place physical limits on usage but we explain this to our customers and ask that they limit their usage.
I have one customer who has been here 5 days and has been on line 50 hrs. I have another who checked in 12 hours ago and has been on line 8 hrs. (a 1/2 price customer of course).
Should I :
Charge for Wifi ?
Discontinue Wifi ?
Limit time allowed ?
Allow x hrs free and charge for more ?
Find new customers ?
joez
QUOTE(puddleduck @ May 3 2013, 09:03 AM) *

Our park is in a very rural area and the only internet available is satellite. We have the highest level of service plan that is available. (and it's not cheap) If we exeed our bandwidth limit (33 gig per rolling 30 days) the ISP will simply shut us down.
We don't place physical limits on usage but we explain this to our customers and ask that they limit their usage.
I have one customer who has been here 5 days and has been on line 50 hrs. I have another who checked in 12 hours ago and has been on line 8 hrs. (a 1/2 price customer of course).
Should I :
Charge for Wifi ?
Discontinue Wifi ?
Limit time allowed ?
Allow x hrs free and charge for more ?
Find new customers ?


We have stayed at several places that limit bandwidth use. Those that handle it professionally put limits in writing and say what will happen if the limits are exceeded (normally throttling). We have stayed at a few that forbid the use of Skype or similar due to bandwidth limitations. We have watched violators asked to leave by park management.

If it were my business, I would do whatever was necessary to ensure each customer provided a profit. As a customer, I would prefer a menu of charges for things like internet, perhaps a base use included in the site price, with additional usage at an additional cost. But, if you do that, would you have enough bandwidth to satisfy everyone if they all chose to pay for lots of usage? Sometimes, running a business and making those decisions is no fun. But above all, you have to make a profit to stay in business. Good luck.
Lindsay Richards
QUOTE
Allow x hrs free and charge for more ?


That would certainly be my recommendation. We use the internet for two major things. Surfing, where I check a number of news type sites and may end of watching some short (2 minutes or so), banking (just a few minutes), and backing up of photos that can use a lot of bandwidth. I would definitely put off the high band width items until we had a better site. I think most RVers are courteous, but there are always a few that will abuse. When using a lot of bandwidth, I will sometimes get things all setup to backup and then when I get up in the middle of the night to back up, I then click a bit and allow the backup of photos to go on while we are all asleep and usage is low. I also don't think hours of usage is a good measure of usage as some activities can use hundreds of times more bandwidth than others. Many people (especially when they have a hard time connecting) will just stay connected even when not using the computer to avoid the hassle. Bandwidth used is a much better measure.
puddleduck
I was hoping for a couple good responses and I got them.
I am trying to solve my problem without buying even more hardware.
I have the ability to:
limit speed by customer
limit speed globaly
limit time used by customer

I already force logout after 10 minutes idle time and force logout after 120 minutes usage. So abusers know that they are abusers.

I think I have a plan now that will work. Unfortunately all you good folks who try to cooperate will end up paying a little more to support the ones who are just takers. But I guess that's todays world isn't it?

docj
QUOTE(joez @ May 3 2013, 11:28 AM) *

We have stayed at several places that limit bandwidth use. Those that handle it professionally put limits in writing and say what will happen if the limits are exceeded (normally throttling). We have stayed at a few that forbid the use of Skype or similar due to bandwidth limitations. We have watched violators asked to leave by park management.

If it were my business, I would do whatever was necessary to ensure each customer provided a profit. As a customer, I would prefer a menu of charges for things like internet, perhaps a base use included in the site price, with additional usage at an additional cost. But, if you do that, would you have enough bandwidth to satisfy everyone if they all chose to pay for lots of usage? Sometimes, running a business and making those decisions is no fun. But above all, you have to make a profit to stay in business. Good luck.


IMHO campgrounds should make the investment to put appropriate software in place so they can limit customer bandwidth. If you don't want people to stream video then don't give them >1-2 Mbps access. Asking people not to stream is never going to work because all it takes is a few to ignore the request and ruin a slow connection for everyone.

As for asking customers to leave a CG because they used Skype, I'd sure like to know how that determination was made. If the CG was actively tracking what sites were visited I think there might be a privacy issue; if you don't want people to go to certain sites, block them!! The software exists, just buy it and use it!
docj
QUOTE(puddleduck @ May 3 2013, 11:03 AM) *

Our park is in a very rural area and the only internet available is satellite. We have the highest level of service plan that is available. (and it's not cheap) If we exeed our bandwidth limit (33 gig per rolling 30 days) the ISP will simply shut us down.
We don't place physical limits on usage but we explain this to our customers and ask that they limit their usage.
I have one customer who has been here 5 days and has been on line 50 hrs. I have another who checked in 12 hours ago and has been on line 8 hrs. (a 1/2 price customer of course).
Should I :
Charge for Wifi ?
Discontinue Wifi ?
Limit time allowed ?
Allow x hrs free and charge for more ?
Find new customers ?


I find it hard to believe that your ISP cuts you off for excess usage rather than simply charging you additional $$. I had Hughesnet satellite for 8 years and, yes, they severely throttled excess usage but I could always pay $$ to have the speed restored.

IMHO the examples you cite of customers using your internet connection don't prove anything. All you are looking at is how long a customer has remained connected, not how much data they have used. I keep my computers connected 24/7 but not much of anything goes on when they aren't actively being used.

However, I do think that you should limit your customer's bandwidth because very few will understand the reasons for the slow speed and long latency that a satellite connection exhibits. Just be upfront with them and tell them that their speeds are being limited to ~400 kbps so they can check email and do some surfing but not infringe on the rights of others.

Next, pay someone to install software that can do this. My beef with CG owners is that they try to run wifi networks without treating them as part of their business. If you pride yourself on having a degree of professionalism then extend that to your network. View your investment in it as a way of making your customers happy and reducing your overall hassle factor.
Lindsay Richards
If a service is there, most people are going to use it. Would you meter electricity for each site? I have seen many times people leave their AC on full blast when leaving for the day so it will be nice when they get back in the evening. WiFi is just another example of the same thing.
Dutch_12078
A few weeks ago we were at a campground in Florida that does meter and charge for electricity at each site, even for overnighters, although they can pay a flat rate instead. Since we were only paying $14.50/night at the weekly rate though, the extra cost for electric wasn't an issue.
puddleduck
QUOTE(Lindsay Richards @ May 4 2013, 08:15 AM) *

If a service is there, most people are going to use it. Would you meter electricity for each site? I have seen many times people leave their AC on full blast when leaving for the day so it will be nice when they get back in the evening. WiFi is just another example of the same thing.


Actually the frugal electric user would be better off if each site were metered. As it is, he is helping to pay for the guy who runs his AC all day.
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