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RFCN2
Doci - you are correct. At this time getting TV via the internet is problematic for "campers" for the most part. The big four wireless people make huge money owning their delivery systems and I don't see them going back to unlimited data with the exception of Sprint. And some have old Verizon unlimited plans, like me. So far I have not bothered to use my Verizon data plan to watch TV. I did test it out on one show, works well.

I am not sure this one Netflix show is a harbinger of the future. I don't think Netflix can afford it.

In a fixed location we have changed the way we watch TV at home. We mostly watch on demand shows from the HBO library and then year old stuff from Netflix. But on the road it is not so easy to get fast internet still.




QUOTE(docj @ Feb 2 2013, 10:45 AM) *

If you aren't already aware of it, yesterday Netflix put online an entire 13-episode new series entitled "House of Cards" starring Kevin Spacey. Although we have already watched the first two shows and have enjoyed them, the reason for this post is simply to point out that this event took place. It appears to be the first time an expensive show with a well-known cast has gone this route, bypassing the HBO, Showtime channels which would have been a more normal venue. Netflix is hinting that this may be only the first of a whole line of "made for streaming" TV content. What's made this even more unusual is that Netflix has made the entire series available at once, no waiting until next week to watch the next episode.

Of course, the implications of this to the entertainment industry are enormous. Essentially, a content provider (a movie producer) has bypassed the entire distribution system and is providing commercial-free content to those willing to pay the intermediary (Netflix) to stream it to them. It's the next logical step beyond the "on demand" process we have become accustomed to.

Once technological evolution like this begins it is hard to stuff the genie back in the bottle, so I expect, over time, we will see more of this not just by Netflix, but maybe also by Amazon and others. This has huge implications for internet providers, campground operators, etc, since it will stress the data-handling capacity of their networks. Sure, nothing has really changed since people can already stream video, but if first-run content becomes more available via streaming they are going to be frustrated if they discover they can't spend their weekend "camping" trip watching a marathon of their favorite shows episodes. Yet another problem for campground owners to wrestle with. As if the question of "free wifi" wasn't difficult enough to deal with on its own.

docj
QUOTE(RFCN2 @ Feb 2 2013, 03:17 PM) *

Doci - you are correct. At this time getting TV via the internet is problematic for "campers" for the most part. The big four wireless people make huge money owning their delivery systems and I don't see them going back to unlimited data with the exception of Sprint. And some have old Verizon unlimited plans, like me. So far I have not bothered to use my Verizon data plan to watch TV. I did test it out on one show, works well.

I am not sure this one Netflix show is a harbinger of the future. I don't think Netflix can afford it.

In a fixed location we have changed the way we watch TV at home. We mostly watch on demand shows from the HBO library and then year old stuff from Netflix. But on the road it is not so easy to get fast internet still.


I agree things won't happen overnight, but IMHO this is where they are headed. We are lucky enough to have an unlimited Verizon 4G plan so we have used it for streaming. If you can get a decent data connection >2Mbps it works well. Data usage is ~1GB/2 hours at SD quality, so someone with a 10GB/mo plan can watch several movies while on a weekend camping trip. If your plan charges $10/GB for excess usage that's not really all that much more than it costs to watch an on-demand movie on DirecTV.

Data prices on the cellular system will, inevitably, come down just as have "per minute" prices. Some 20 years ago I bought a cell phone for a college-age son who had to drive long distances through some rough country to come home from school. I recall his plan cost ~$10/mo for 10-15/minutes of service and a awful lot for excess usage. It's hard to imagine that wasn't all that long ago.
Lindsay Richards
On our recent RV trip, we camped for 3 days at a Passport America camp ground that advertised they had WiFi. We asked for a site with good reception. They showed up as having reception (3 or 4 bars), but we could not connect. My Smart Phone did the same thing. The next day, I asked numerous other campers and they all said the same thing. We asked the owner to correct and they didn't have a clue. I think it just needed a reboot. Many of these campground rely on vendor for the whole thing and evidently they can charge by the call.
docj
QUOTE(Lindsay Richards @ Apr 16 2013, 10:18 PM) *

On our recent RV trip, we camped for 3 days at a Passport America camp ground that advertised they had WiFi. We asked for a site with good reception. They showed up as having reception (3 or 4 bars), but we could not connect. My Smart Phone did the same thing. The next day, I asked numerous other campers and they all said the same thing. We asked the owner to correct and they didn't have a clue. I think it just needed a reboot. Many of these campground rely on vendor for the whole thing and evidently they can charge by the call.



Several times I've been successful asking CG managers if they would reboot the wifi. Since there is no risk to them by doing it, I haven't encountered any resistance to my suggestions.
Glenn Norton
QUOTE(docj @ Apr 17 2013, 07:52 PM) *

Several times I've been successful asking CG managers if they would reboot the wifi. Since there is no risk to them by doing it, I haven't encountered any resistance to my suggestions.


I have asked staff to do a reboot so many times that I've lost count. I think I'm batting around 50% success in getting connected. If I got a dollar for every time staff have told me that they don't know anything about the Wi-Fi setup I would be a rich man indeed. biggrin.gif
Lindsay Richards
This doesn't work when the campground manager thinks the computer is a TV hooked up to a typewriter. It is the advantage of the "computer guy" to come out and get paid for a service call rather than teach them. I have talked to campground folks who did not even know their own server password. Not the password to their web site available for campers, but the password to start up their own server/computer.
puddleduck
QUOTE(Glenn Norton @ Apr 18 2013, 05:46 PM) *

I have asked staff to do a reboot so many times that I've lost count. I think I'm batting around 50% success in getting connected. If I got a dollar for every time staff have told me that they don't know anything about the Wi-Fi setup I would be a rich man indeed. biggrin.gif


If I had a dollar for each customer who has asked me how to connect to a wireless network I guess we'd both be rich.
kcmoedoe
QUOTE(puddleduck @ Apr 23 2013, 09:00 AM) *

If I had a dollar for each customer who has asked me how to connect to a wireless network I guess we'd both be rich.

I wouldn't doubt that several of the times I have been bumped off a perfectly good Wifi connection in the middle of a download was because some "internet expert" convinced the park to reboot their connections.
Lindsay Richards
A savvy park owner should know not to reboot on one complaint. When nobody in the park can get a connection for days, something is bad wrong and future business can be hurt via review sites. It pays to deliver what you advertise and it hurts to not due so.
Texasrvers
QUOTE(Lindsay Richards @ Apr 23 2013, 10:43 AM) *

A savvy park owner should know not to reboot on one complaint.


Probably true, but we were at a park recently that we were having a lot of trouble connecting to their wi-fi. I called the office, and the desk person said they had not had any other complaints which they would have been getting if the problem was with their system. (They had quite a few long term residents who reported trouble quickly.) However, he said he would reboot (I didn't even ask him to; he just said he would try that). After that we had no more trouble, so I'm glad that in this instance, he did not wait for more complaints.
puddleduck
Our park is in a very rural area and the only internet available is satellite. We have the highest level of service plan that is available. (and it's not cheap) If we exeed our bandwidth limit (33 gig per rolling 30 days) the ISP will simply shut us down.
We don't place physical limits on usage but we explain this to our customers and ask that they limit their usage.
I have one customer who has been here 5 days and has been on line 50 hrs. I have another who checked in 12 hours ago and has been on line 8 hrs. (a 1/2 price customer of course).
Should I :
Charge for Wifi ?
Discontinue Wifi ?
Limit time allowed ?
Allow x hrs free and charge for more ?
Find new customers ?
joez
QUOTE(puddleduck @ May 3 2013, 09:03 AM) *

Our park is in a very rural area and the only internet available is satellite. We have the highest level of service plan that is available. (and it's not cheap) If we exeed our bandwidth limit (33 gig per rolling 30 days) the ISP will simply shut us down.
We don't place physical limits on usage but we explain this to our customers and ask that they limit their usage.
I have one customer who has been here 5 days and has been on line 50 hrs. I have another who checked in 12 hours ago and has been on line 8 hrs. (a 1/2 price customer of course).
Should I :
Charge for Wifi ?
Discontinue Wifi ?
Limit time allowed ?
Allow x hrs free and charge for more ?
Find new customers ?


We have stayed at several places that limit bandwidth use. Those that handle it professionally put limits in writing and say what will happen if the limits are exceeded (normally throttling). We have stayed at a few that forbid the use of Skype or similar due to bandwidth limitations. We have watched violators asked to leave by park management.

If it were my business, I would do whatever was necessary to ensure each customer provided a profit. As a customer, I would prefer a menu of charges for things like internet, perhaps a base use included in the site price, with additional usage at an additional cost. But, if you do that, would you have enough bandwidth to satisfy everyone if they all chose to pay for lots of usage? Sometimes, running a business and making those decisions is no fun. But above all, you have to make a profit to stay in business. Good luck.
Lindsay Richards
QUOTE
Allow x hrs free and charge for more ?


That would certainly be my recommendation. We use the internet for two major things. Surfing, where I check a number of news type sites and may end of watching some short (2 minutes or so), banking (just a few minutes), and backing up of photos that can use a lot of bandwidth. I would definitely put off the high band width items until we had a better site. I think most RVers are courteous, but there are always a few that will abuse. When using a lot of bandwidth, I will sometimes get things all setup to backup and then when I get up in the middle of the night to back up, I then click a bit and allow the backup of photos to go on while we are all asleep and usage is low. I also don't think hours of usage is a good measure of usage as some activities can use hundreds of times more bandwidth than others. Many people (especially when they have a hard time connecting) will just stay connected even when not using the computer to avoid the hassle. Bandwidth used is a much better measure.
puddleduck
I was hoping for a couple good responses and I got them.
I am trying to solve my problem without buying even more hardware.
I have the ability to:
limit speed by customer
limit speed globaly
limit time used by customer

I already force logout after 10 minutes idle time and force logout after 120 minutes usage. So abusers know that they are abusers.

I think I have a plan now that will work. Unfortunately all you good folks who try to cooperate will end up paying a little more to support the ones who are just takers. But I guess that's todays world isn't it?

docj
QUOTE(joez @ May 3 2013, 11:28 AM) *

We have stayed at several places that limit bandwidth use. Those that handle it professionally put limits in writing and say what will happen if the limits are exceeded (normally throttling). We have stayed at a few that forbid the use of Skype or similar due to bandwidth limitations. We have watched violators asked to leave by park management.

If it were my business, I would do whatever was necessary to ensure each customer provided a profit. As a customer, I would prefer a menu of charges for things like internet, perhaps a base use included in the site price, with additional usage at an additional cost. But, if you do that, would you have enough bandwidth to satisfy everyone if they all chose to pay for lots of usage? Sometimes, running a business and making those decisions is no fun. But above all, you have to make a profit to stay in business. Good luck.


IMHO campgrounds should make the investment to put appropriate software in place so they can limit customer bandwidth. If you don't want people to stream video then don't give them >1-2 Mbps access. Asking people not to stream is never going to work because all it takes is a few to ignore the request and ruin a slow connection for everyone.

As for asking customers to leave a CG because they used Skype, I'd sure like to know how that determination was made. If the CG was actively tracking what sites were visited I think there might be a privacy issue; if you don't want people to go to certain sites, block them!! The software exists, just buy it and use it!
docj
QUOTE(puddleduck @ May 3 2013, 11:03 AM) *

Our park is in a very rural area and the only internet available is satellite. We have the highest level of service plan that is available. (and it's not cheap) If we exeed our bandwidth limit (33 gig per rolling 30 days) the ISP will simply shut us down.
We don't place physical limits on usage but we explain this to our customers and ask that they limit their usage.
I have one customer who has been here 5 days and has been on line 50 hrs. I have another who checked in 12 hours ago and has been on line 8 hrs. (a 1/2 price customer of course).
Should I :
Charge for Wifi ?
Discontinue Wifi ?
Limit time allowed ?
Allow x hrs free and charge for more ?
Find new customers ?


I find it hard to believe that your ISP cuts you off for excess usage rather than simply charging you additional $$. I had Hughesnet satellite for 8 years and, yes, they severely throttled excess usage but I could always pay $$ to have the speed restored.

IMHO the examples you cite of customers using your internet connection don't prove anything. All you are looking at is how long a customer has remained connected, not how much data they have used. I keep my computers connected 24/7 but not much of anything goes on when they aren't actively being used.

However, I do think that you should limit your customer's bandwidth because very few will understand the reasons for the slow speed and long latency that a satellite connection exhibits. Just be upfront with them and tell them that their speeds are being limited to ~400 kbps so they can check email and do some surfing but not infringe on the rights of others.

Next, pay someone to install software that can do this. My beef with CG owners is that they try to run wifi networks without treating them as part of their business. If you pride yourself on having a degree of professionalism then extend that to your network. View your investment in it as a way of making your customers happy and reducing your overall hassle factor.
Lindsay Richards
If a service is there, most people are going to use it. Would you meter electricity for each site? I have seen many times people leave their AC on full blast when leaving for the day so it will be nice when they get back in the evening. WiFi is just another example of the same thing.
Dutch_12078
A few weeks ago we were at a campground in Florida that does meter and charge for electricity at each site, even for overnighters, although they can pay a flat rate instead. Since we were only paying $14.50/night at the weekly rate though, the extra cost for electric wasn't an issue.
puddleduck
QUOTE(Lindsay Richards @ May 4 2013, 08:15 AM) *

If a service is there, most people are going to use it. Would you meter electricity for each site? I have seen many times people leave their AC on full blast when leaving for the day so it will be nice when they get back in the evening. WiFi is just another example of the same thing.


Actually the frugal electric user would be better off if each site were metered. As it is, he is helping to pay for the guy who runs his AC all day.
Lindsay Richards
It would make check out a hassle though. Now we just dump, pack up and leave without having to pay again.
wprigge
QUOTE(Lindsay Richards @ May 29 2013, 09:53 AM) *

It would make check out a hassle though. Now we just dump, pack up and leave without having to pay again.



When I camped in Europe in the nineteeneighties quite a few campgrounds had coin-operated electric hook-ups. On arrival, you fed the beast some coins and before going to sleep you estimated if there was enough juice left to last the night. This way you payed only what you used, even though it was a hassle.
docj
Since this thread about WiFi has gotten hijacked to be about charging for electricity, you could minimize everyone's frustration if you used an approach similar to how rental car companies deal with the issue of a tank of gas. You can either return the car with a full tank or you can buy the full tank upfront and return it as close to empty as you wish.

To stretch the analogy a bit, if a CG wanted to charge for electricity it could offer customers a choice of either a flat $$/day charge (calculated on their electric rate and an average expected usage) or a xx cents/kw-hr rate if they wish to settle up when they leave. If you are only staying for one night and want to be off early in the morning you might find a $2-4 charge for electricity to be acceptable. If you were staying for a week and think you are very frugal you could opt to pay the actual cost based on usage.

The CG could insist on a credit card authorization or a cash deposit to ensure that customers who wanted to pay as they left didn't leave without paying. That would be no different than giving a credit card to a hotel when you checked in to cover any charges to your room.
WrongWayRandall
While we have zero interest in technology when camping, I can appreciate any park's need to charge for wireless access. Among other things in my professional capacity, I manage a centralized wireless network with over 500 access points and I can tell you that it is no small (or inexpensive) task to give good wireless coverage and capacity in a high density setting. There are a number of substantial costs associated with providing wireless service when you are doing anything more than dropping a personal wireless router in your living room for your sole use, especially when you consider that the equipment the park must use has to be able to withstand prolonged exposure to the elements. There are equipment costs, technical support costs, costs for service from a service provider, etc. that occur on a regular basis which must all be accounted for somehow. Since most businesses are in business to make money rather than give it away, they need to pass along all costs to their customers (with some overhead for profit of course) I would have no problem with a site offering wireless service with a daily cost.

That said, I would greatly prefer that a park charge a separate fee for this service rather than roll it into the already significant overnight charge. I think that it is probably a nice convenience for those interested in using it when 'camping', but I don't think that either the park or those who wish to spend time away from all that type of distraction when camping should have to pay for it.
docj
QUOTE(WrongWayRandall @ May 30 2013, 03:17 PM) *


That said, I would greatly prefer that a park charge a separate fee for this service rather than roll it into the already significant overnight charge. I think that it is probably a nice convenience for those interested in using it when 'camping', but I don't think that either the park or those who wish to spend time away from all that type of distraction when camping should have to pay for it.


I sense that the quotes around the word "camping" in your post denote a pejorative associated in your mind with people who go camping but are interested in maintaining contact with the rest of the world. I would like to point out that there are many people who use or live in RVs who in no way view themselves as "campers" by your definition.

My wife and I enjoy sitting outside if the weather is pleasant and we use our (propane) grill if it is appropriate for the food we are preparing. But we don't make campfires unless the grandkids are with us and we surely don't cook anything over a fire other than marshmallows. Our cooking appliances include a Gaggenau rangetop, a Circulon induction burner, a GE Profile microwave/convection oven and a Breville toaster/convection oven.

Our onboard computer network consists of 2 laptops, an iPad, a Nexus, two smart phones, a Roku and a wireless printer. Maintaining internet connectivity is just as essential to our lives as is the ability to cook gourmet meals.

We're sorry if this isn't "camping" as you expect it to be. We are RVers, not campers and never claimed otherwise.
HappiestCamper
QUOTE(docj @ May 30 2013, 09:56 PM) *

Our onboard computer network consists of 2 laptops, an iPad, a Nexus, two smart phones, a Roku and a wireless printer.


Just a quick question - I looked up the wifiranger stuff in your signature, and I see that their products range from routers that use 3/4G, and routers that use wifi hotspots. Do you use the Roku on the CG's wifi, or through 3/4G?
WrongWayRandall
QUOTE(docj @ May 30 2013, 09:56 PM) *

I sense that the quotes around the word "camping" in your post denote a pejorative associated in your mind with people who go camping but are interested in maintaining contact with the rest of the world. I would like to point out that there are many people who use or live in RVs who in no way view themselves as "campers" by your definition.

My wife and I enjoy sitting outside if the weather is pleasant and we use our (propane) grill if it is appropriate for the food we are preparing. But we don't make campfires unless the grandkids are with us and we surely don't cook anything over a fire other than marshmallows. Our cooking appliances include a Gaggenau rangetop, a Circulon induction burner, a GE Profile microwave/convection oven and a Breville toaster/convection oven.

Our onboard computer network consists of 2 laptops, an iPad, a Nexus, two smart phones, a Roku and a wireless printer. Maintaining internet connectivity is just as essential to our lives as is the ability to cook gourmet meals.

We're sorry if this isn't "camping" as you expect it to be. We are RVers, not campers and never claimed otherwise.


I'm sorry that you read so much hostility into my response - that is, unfortunately, one of the downsides inherent to impersonal methods of communication such as this. My quote merely meant to acknowledge in advance that my idea of camping does not often match the definition that many people who participate in online forums related to this topic have for the word 'camping', and that not everyone needs, or wants, to be connected at all times, hence my comment that the charge for Internet service would be more equitable if it were applied only to those who use it.

For what it's worth, maintaining a regular disconnect from technology is essential to our lives as much as it appears maintaining a connection to it is essential to yours. I do not expect others to feel the way I do about any aspect of life, nor do I judge them harshly when their opinions differ from my own (which is the case far more often than not.) The Internet is full of people venting their bile and I have no interest in adding to (or participating in) such behavior. Please accept my apologies for any implied slight, I assure you that that was not my intent.
Lindsay Richards
For those of us who RV months at a time, WiFi is a necessity. This is how we stay connected with family and the world. We have over 10,000 photos on our website and family loves to look at them and discuss. I is so much more effective than verbal communications. I believe the modern campground has to understand that and tailor it's services for the RVers that frequent it's business. You don't know how many times I have been told, you are out here in nature and should leave all that "stuff" at home. Well, I want my family to enjoy that "stuff" with my family and want to keep up with what is going on in the world
sjsaxt
It Should be Free, you have it installed for the business that a fixed cost now all you have to do is install a router and the rest of the park works off the WIFI. the only cost is the router $80.00 and your park is now ready.

If needed you add entender to expand the wifi.
Dutch_12078
QUOTE(sjsaxt @ May 31 2013, 11:53 AM) *

It Should be Free, you have it installed for the business that a fixed cost now all you have to do is install a router and the rest of the park works off the WIFI. the only cost is the router $80.00 and your park is now ready.

If needed you add entender to expand the wifi.

Apparently you've never spec'ed an effective campground WiFi system. An $80 router would only serve the basic needs of the handful of sites that are closest to it. The back haul Internet service needed to support a busy 100 site system alone can run hundreds of dollars a month.
Texasrvers
QUOTE(WrongWayRandall @ May 30 2013, 02:17 PM) *

I would greatly prefer that a park charge a separate fee for this service rather than roll it into the already significant overnight charge. I think that it is probably a nice convenience for those interested in using it when 'camping', but I don't think that either the park or those who wish to spend time away from all that type of distraction when camping should have to pay for it.


First, a belated welcome to the forum. It sounds like you will have a lot to offer to the discussions.

Second, I think I understand what you are saying, and there have been several discussions on this website about this. Personally I think there are many different ways to enjoy using an RV—everything from boondocking at a secluded spot without any contact with the rest of the world to parking at a 5 star resort with every amenity and activity you can possibly want being available. One is not better than the other –just different, and what you choose depends on your individual likes, wants, and needs.

That said, I believe that the term “camping” leans toward referring to a more rustic atmosphere usually with campfires, tents, no concrete in sight, few, if any, utilities, and no technology. I am not saying all “campgrounds” are (or have to be) this way, but for me, the terms “campground” and “camping” conjure up this vision.

Many people like to have this type of experience. So I think all WrongWayRandall is saying is he is a person who likes to unplug every now and then, and if he will not be using the technology that is available at the campground, why should he have to pay for it. Unfortunately this has been asked many times before, and it is still being debated.
roygbell
Of course they should provide free or a reasonably priced option for wifi. If a site has cable then providing wifi is really cheap for them to provide. All it takes is a couple of routers and a little bit of knowledge to keep them in working order.

One of my pet peeves is RV Parks that advertise, and tell you that they have free TV and wifi only to find out that the wifi signal is worthless and the TV is just a few cable/dish channels that are so far out of the mainstream that they aren't viewed. I have a long memory and won't stay, assuming there are options, that don't provide good TV and wifi connections.
Dutch_12078
QUOTE(roygbell @ Jun 20 2013, 01:01 PM) *

Of course they should provide free or a reasonably priced option for wifi. If a site has cable then providing wifi is really cheap for them to provide. All it takes is a couple of routers and a little bit of knowledge to keep them in working order.


I'm guessing you've never priced out a high bandwidth commercial account with Comcast or Time Warner. "...really cheap..." doesn't even cover the taxes. I'm also guessing you've never priced or configured the routers and antennas needed to properly blanket a hundred or more campsites with a good quality WiFi signal. The cheap residential stuff we use at home won't begin hold up to the use and abuse RV'ers can and do heap on it. Think about 50-75 users all trying to stream video at the same time. I just left an RV park where the new owners have recently installed a pretty good system that was giving us speeds in the 8-10 meg down/2 meg up area, with good strength, but the park was only filled to about 25% of its capacity. I don't know how well the speeds will hold up when the place fills up. And no, the WiFi was not free, although I did think the $5 daily/$15 per week charge was reasonable. The manager said the bill for the complete installation was just over $20K, but he didn't have a final total yet from Comcast, to know exactly what the ongoing monthly charges would be, as some of it includes leased equipment for the cable TV system as well.
Galli
QUOTE(Dutch_12078 @ Jun 20 2013, 03:24 PM) *

I'm guessing you've never priced out a high bandwidth commercial account with Comcast or Time Warner. "...really cheap..." doesn't even cover the taxes. I'm also guessing you've never priced or configured the routers and antennas needed to properly blanket a hundred or more campsites with a good quality WiFi signal. The cheap residential stuff we use at home won't begin hold up to the use and abuse RV'ers can and do heap on it. Think about 50-75 users all trying to stream video at the same time. I just left an RV park where the new owners have recently installed a pretty good system that was giving us speeds in the 8-10 meg down/2 meg up area, with good strength, but the park was only filled to about 25% of its capacity. I don't know how well the speeds will hold up when the place fills up. And no, the WiFi was not free, although I did think the $5 daily/$15 per week charge was reasonable. The manager said the bill for the complete installation was just over $20K, but he didn't have a final total yet from Comcast, to know exactly what the ongoing monthly charges would be, as some of it includes leased equipment for the cable TV system as well.

I am not an expert in internet facility but I need my internet when I am camping.
I cannot debate the difficulty and cost to implement the system at the campground, my issue is: if you do advertise the internet at your campground, it should be functional.
This facility should be there but separate from the camp price and should the RVer’s decision whether to accept or forfeit this facility .
What really upsets me is the misleading information, namely, yes, it is advertised the Internet facility but, when there it doesn't work or unreliable.
It is my opinion but, today, internet the facilities are important as the telephone and I know people that uses this facility to work while in vacation.
I was perusing through the recent comments and noted that the emphasis of the issue is more based on the difficulties for the camp owners to provide the service but there is not much comments of the right of the consumer to have what’s advertised and paid for it.
Dutch_12078
I do agree that you should get what the campground advertises. I also think there has to be a reasonable balance between truthful advertising and reasonable expectations on the part of the consumer as well. If a campground simply advertises that "WiFi is available" for instance, then in my opinion, it is up to the consumer to question whether the advertised WiFi is available at all sites or just at the office, are the speeds fast enough to meet your needs, etc. I think we all make assumptions at times, based on our personal preferences, that don't necessarily match the realities of the marketplace. Asking ahead of time is probably the easiest way to avoid disappointment, if fast, reliable Internet access is critical to your stay, and you don't care to provide the service for yourself.
kcmoedoe
QUOTE(Galli @ Jun 20 2013, 06:58 PM) *

I am not an expert in internet facility but I need my internet when I am camping.
I cannot debate the difficulty and cost to implement the system at the campground, my issue is: if you do advertise the internet at your campground, it should be functional.
This facility should be there but separate from the camp price and should the RVer’s decision whether to accept or forfeit this facility .
What really upsets me is the misleading information, namely, yes, it is advertised the Internet facility but, when there it doesn't work or unreliable.
It is my opinion but, today, internet the facilities are important as the telephone and I know people that uses this facility to work while in vacation.
I was perusing through the recent comments and noted that the emphasis of the issue is more based on the difficulties for the camp owners to provide the service but there is not much comments of the right of the consumer to have what’s advertised and paid for it.

The internet may be just as important as a phone, but when was the last time you saw an rv park provide phone hookups at each site? With the proliferation of cellphone based internet connections, I would think that campground wifi will soon go the way of the instant phone and the dodo bird.
Lindsay Richards
For the non full timers, using your cell phone while camping means a large expense. We have internet service at home and basic service via my carrier would be $30 a month. I used to be able to tether my laptop to my phone, but the phone company stopped that when I upgraded my phone. It leaves us dependent upon WiFi when not using our Smart phones which are a long way from a laptop.
docj
QUOTE(Lindsay Richards @ Jun 24 2013, 12:09 AM) *

For the non full timers, using your cell phone while camping means a large expense. We have internet service at home and basic service via my carrier would be $30 a month. I used to be able to tether my laptop to my phone, but the phone company stopped that when I upgraded my phone. It leaves us dependent upon WiFi when not using our Smart phones which are a long way from a laptop.


If you have Verizon, under the terms of the lawsuit settled last year customers who have "Shared Everything" plans can utilize FoxFi or any other 3rd party software to use their phones as hotspots or via USB tethering with no payment required to Verizon. Therefore, using your smart phone as a hotspot would not cost you anything out of pocket other than purchase of FoxFi. I don't know what you mean by "basic service" from your carrier, but 4G/LTE service is not all that different from what you get via cable and a lot better than most DSL connections.
HappiestCamper
That is why when I get a new phone from Verizon, I pay the full price for the phone - that way they can't change my contract, which has unlimited data.
Lindsay Richards
I used to have Easy Tether which required a hard wire connection which was not a problem as I was in the coach, but my new phone will not work with it. I have grandfathered unlimited data for about another year. I also have an omnidirectional antenna which can really pull in the WiFi. It runs off USB power.
docj
QUOTE(HappiestCamper @ Jun 24 2013, 11:07 AM) *

That is why when I get a new phone from Verizon, I pay the full price for the phone - that way they can't change my contract, which has unlimited data.


We are in the same situation. I pay Verizon $30/mo for hotspot access on one of our phones because I don't want to break any of the rules about maintaining the unlimited service. They probably wouldn't catch me if I used FoxFi but it's worth the money to me to make sure that can't be used as a reason for changing my plan. We've been streaming lots of video over the past couple of months so the unlimited plan savings more than pay for the $30.
mauigirl
Hubby and I have been full time for four years. While we certainly enjoy the "camping" experience from time to time, we also enjoy a more modern RV park as well. Living on the road means we must pay our bills on line and correspond with our family and friends on line. Nothing is more frustrating that deciding upon a location that lures you in with "WI-FI HERE" and it doesn't work properly - if at all. OR I must drag my computer and paperwork to the office and spread out.

Personally, I would not mind a small up charge for reliable internet. We're in Canada at the moment and thankfully this park does have wi-fi at no extra fee.

This is 2013 for heaven's sake. Nearly everyone has a smart phone or a computer. Time for RV parks to get on the bandwagon too.

Just my humble opinion. smile.gif



QUOTE(drmcleod @ Jul 18 2008, 05:18 PM) *

Should Campgrounds charge for Internet access?

I would like to get other opinions on this.

My opinion is no! I have two reasons for this.

First, as a consumer. Having free internet access is actually one of the things I look for in a campground. It's a 'perk' if you will. If I have the choice between two, somewhat comparable, c/g's then I will choose the one with free WiFi. Heck, I'll even choose the one with free WiFi over one that is slightly nicer with fee for service.

Second, as a business owner (of which I am one). It does not cost more to allow the whole campground access to your broadband service. The only additional expense is the addition of the hardware. In some cases this might be more expensive if additional antennas are required and installation requires an expert. Also, a higher than basic internet subscription is needed. However, if the c/g is going to charge for its WiFi service, then all of this has to be done anyway. Therefore, consider it a marketing expense to drive more people to your c/g. Why do you think that places like Panera Bread and even McDonald's are offering free WiFi? I know I choose to eat there when I need a place to surf while I eat. In my case, I want more people to come to my place of business, so I make my wireless service available to all. It costs me no more, but brings more people to me.

What do you think?

docj
QUOTE(mauigirl @ Jul 22 2013, 12:56 PM) *

Hubby and I have been full time for four years. While we certainly enjoy the "camping" experience from time to time, we also enjoy a more modern RV park as well. Living on the road means we must pay our bills on line and correspond with our family and friends on line. Nothing is more frustrating that deciding upon a location that lures you in with "WI-FI HERE" and it doesn't work properly - if at all. OR I must drag my computer and paperwork to the office and spread out.


We've been full-timing for nearly 3 years and I couldn't even imagine not having my own cellular internet connection. There's no way we could rely entirely on free wifi for exactly what you describe--bill paying, email, Skype, etc. When I find a usable CG wifi I use it, but I don't rely on it for anything I care about. JMO
Zfreebyrd
Over the past three months, we have stayed in over 20 private campgrounds, most of which advertise "free wifi". While it may be free, their routers are so under powered that connections are difficult to make and when connected, the service is very slow. I would rather pay a nominal fee and have good service. Rv campground owners, are not doing themselves or their customers a a favor by offering such under powered service.
MontanaGypsySoul
We will pick an RV Park with Free WiFi over a competitor every time. As a fulltimer, we are largely dependent on internet to maintain contact with family and friends. We also use the internet for networking with other RVers. With all the technology available today, there really isn't a reason a park shouldn't have free WiFi.
CRL
QUOTE(MontanaGypsySoul @ Aug 4 2013, 03:32 AM) *

We will pick an RV Park with Free WiFi over a competitor every time. As a fulltimer, we are largely dependent on internet to maintain contact with family and friends. We also use the internet for networking with other RVers. With all the technology available today, there really isn't a reason a park shouldn't have free WiFi.



X 2
RFCN2
We are now ending our 2013 summer trip. I can say that Verizon has come a long way with their 3 and 4 G internet. Almost all places we stayed had a good to great signal. We did watch a few TV shows using Verizon and one once using park wifi. One park owner said he was beefing up his internet so people staying there could use it to watch TV. On the other hand our satellite internet now seems very slow. I think I will cancel it.

We mostly watched DVD's that I bought before the trip. I buy them on Amazon or ebay and resell after we watch them. The DVD's work perfectly and no issues at all with internet speeds. We watched 10 old PBS mysteries, a couple of seasons of Downtown Abbey, and a couple of seasons of Breaking Bad. All show we had not watched before. DVD's are so simple compared with any sat TV or internet TV. We had one of the sat TV systems for three years. It worked great at our home and half baked on the road.

I do think TV will go to internet delivery systems. However, if you do not have an unlimited wireless plan it could be a bit pricy.

Galli
QUOTE(kcmoedoe @ Jun 23 2013, 08:20 PM) *

The internet may be just as important as a phone, but when was the last time you saw an rv park provide phone hookups at each site? With the proliferation of cellphone based internet connections, I would think that campground wifi will soon go the way of the instant phone and the dodo bird.

,Well, you might be right, however there are certain things in our society that become very important, take for example 60 or 70 years ago, a telephone was almost a luxury, never mind a cell phone, today a personal phone is so common that the telephone booths in cities are disappearing. sad.gif
Having said the above, now it is the computer/internet type and if you wish to promote your business, you have to provide and adequate service or, people will float to places that provide it . ohmy.gif
In our technologic age, more and more people are extending their own business outside the office and this includes comp grounds and vacation spots in general, therefore, if you do promote a service and then is not available , well, you will not return to the same place. tongue.gif
If they are thinking that SNOWBIRDS are only old retired persons not important enough to alter the market, well, I am one of them and beside being very active, I met several younger persons that conduct their business from the campsite and without the internet facilities they could not run their own business. cool.gif
My point is that, WE ARE THE ONE WITH MONEY to spend and if we are not satisfied we are going to spend them somewhere else. laugh.gif
I hope that camp owners are reading our output and learn how to be correct in business.
wink.gif
dalsgal
Some people seem to have the opinion that CG's can update/upgrade their internet services with no cost. It is not cheap to add enough to the service so everyone can watch TV and download movies. There is a cost to that and you, the camper, is going to end up paying for your "free" WiFi.
kcmoedoe
QUOTE(Galli @ Aug 29 2013, 11:48 AM) *

,Well, you might be right, however there are certain things in our society that become very important, take for example 60 or 70 years ago, a telephone was almost a luxury, never mind a cell phone, today a personal phone is so common that the telephone booths in cities are disappearing. sad.gif
Having said the above, now it is the computer/internet type and if you wish to promote your business, you have to provide and adequate service or, people will float to places that provide it . ohmy.gif
In our technologic age, more and more people are extending their own business outside the office and this includes comp grounds and vacation spots in general, therefore, if you do promote a service and then is not available , well, you will not return to the same place. tongue.gif
If they are thinking that SNOWBIRDS are only old retired persons not important enough to alter the market, well, I am one of them and beside being very active, I met several younger persons that conduct their business from the campsite and without the internet facilities they could not run their own business. cool.gif
My point is that, WE ARE THE ONE WITH MONEY to spend and if we are not satisfied we are going to spend them somewhere else. laugh.gif
I hope that camp owners are reading our output and learn how to be correct in business.
wink.gif

I don't know if we are agreeing or disagreeing. Yes, phones are now a necessity in life, yet the RV parks have no need to provide phone hookups or phones. They don't have pay phones anymore and I haven't see a park in years with a working phone jack at the sites, yet people are now using phones more than ever. Phones survived and thrived even though businesses stopped providing them. I see the same thing happening with the internet. Soon the parks and other businesses will just get out of the wifi business and people who need the internet will provide their own connection via some sort of cellular data plan. Those businesses will save money and the customer will not be upset at the business for problems beyond the businesses' control. It will become an issue between the data user and the data provider, which is what it probably should be. Don't think we will see it tomorrow or next year, but 10 years from now I kind of think RV parks providing wifi will be a thing of the past.
marsingbob
QUOTE(kcmoedoe @ Aug 29 2013, 04:09 PM) *

I don't know if we are agreeing or disagreeing. Yes, phones are now a necessity in life, yet the RV parks have no need to provide phone hookups or phones. They don't have pay phones anymore and I haven't see a park in years with a working phone jack at the sites, yet people are now using phones more than ever. Phones survived and thrived even though businesses stopped providing them. I see the same thing happening with the internet. Soon the parks and other businesses will just get out of the wifi business and people who need the internet will provide their own connection via some sort of cellular data plan. Those businesses will save money and the customer will not be upset at the business for problems beyond the businesses' control. It will become an issue between the data user and the data provider, which is what it probably should be. Don't think we will see it tomorrow or next year, but 10 years from now I kind of think RV parks providing wifi will be a thing of the past.

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