I am kind of curious. One of my reviews was not posted / allowed because we had not actually stayed at the park. The reason we had not stayed at the park was because of our pets and the owners' views on them.

We have a pair of large (service animal) dogs, Labrador cross. We made reservations at this park. When we arrived the owner met us at our motorhome and asked to see the dogs prior to allowing us in the park. Now this is a "membership" park, and according to their advertising they are a pet friendly park, no breed restrictions.

Long story short she determined one of our dogs was an aggressive breed animal, demanded to see our service animal paperwork (which is against ADA), and then rudely told us it would be $5 per day per dog IF we stayed as that "people with service animals are lazy, and do not clean up after their dogs".

We left. We never made it past the front gate because we knew this was gonna be a hellish stay if we choose to bend to her will.

Now when I submitted this review, it was rejected because we hadn't actually stayed at this park; although there are other reviews of this parks from people who had experienced similar problems. As a pet owner I WANT to know IF I am going to run into a problem BEFORE I arrive or make reservations. Am I the only one? ? ? Just a little curious...

I realize your post is asking about if you will have trouble taking our dogs into RV parks. However, I would like to make a clarification. I looked up the deferral you mentioned. While we prefer that reviewers actually stay at a park in order to accurately determine what it is like, your review was not deferred because you did not stay there. The problem was that you did not give any information about the park. You even stated that you never made it past the gates. There was no mention of its overall appearance, what the sites were like, if the utilities were placed conveniently and worked well, or what amenities were available. While we understand the importance of being able to take your dogs with you into a park, this is not the primary information that many readers are looking for. If you had included a description of the park, your review probably would have been accepted.

That comment about disabled people being lazy is just....sad. I'm so sorry you had to go through that.

Just curious though, how did you get ADA docs for two dogs?

First let me clarify, ADA (Americans with Disabilities Act) does NOT "give" you paperwork. It is merely the government legislation that allows prescribed animals exception from the "pet" policies and stipulations many places have. As for what is required and not required, any computer literate person can find it online, also any lawyer can provide a person a copy of it.


My hubby and I each have different medical conditions requiring different training for the animals. As such after receiving prescriptions from our doctors, we visited our local human society to pick out our animals. As my hubby is a Disabled Vet, the VA trained his animal for free. Mine on the other hand was trained through a mental health program. Both animals are required for our daily life.

Thus we carry both their original prescriptions and their Companion Animal registration with us. However ADA makes it very very clear this is not required and against said law for someone to ask for it.

I hope that helps....

As copied and pasted from the email I received concerning this review -

Comments specific to your review:
Sorry, but even if you do not stay at a park, your review needs to tell about the park and the services and amenities offered there. It is unlikely that other RVers will run into the same trouble that you did, and so they want to know what the sites and other areas of the park are like.


I also stated in the beginning of this post as well as in the review - we did NOT stay at this park and WHY.... Thus you defending your decision for not posting it is truly a moot point... We did NOT stay there because of the OWNER / MANAGEMENTS rude attitude toward us and or our Pets..... If they DO NOT wish to be bothered by pets they NEED to change their advertisement to state as much....

I was merely asking IF this was / would be a concern for others on their trips.... Not debating why the review was not posted...

Copied and pasted from this park's reviews... WE were NOT the first who did NOT stay here because of the owner's attitude...


Review Rating
Rating Image
[ 3 / 10 ]
November 2011
$23
We did not stay here after meeting the owner, who was very arrogant, rude and treat us like we were third rate people. I do not like to say that about people but this time I have too. I will warn anyone looking to stay there, to be far warned in advance about this camp this campground and it's owners. We camped here in a Motorhome.

OK, you have tried to make your point again, so I will, too.

In your OP you stated that your review was deferred because you did not actually stay at the park. I wanted to clarify that the reason it was deferred was because it did not contain information about the park. You do not have to stay at a park in order to submit a review, but you do have to tell what the park is like, and that is exactly what the admin explained to you in the email you received.

As for the second review you quoted, it does not appear it follows our guidelines either and probably should have been deferred also--not because they didn't stay, but because there is no information about the park. However, each individual review is a judgement call, and some of the admins are more lenient than others. I guess your review was just done by the strict, mean one.

You cannot be denied access anywhere except areas where sterile conditions are required, and the public is not generally allowed (such as a restaurant kitchen, an operating room or other special areas of a hospital etc.) because of a true "service animal" . A service animal is defined as being necessary to assist an individual for a specific condition. A "therapy dog is not a service animal and therapy dogs do not have any ADA protections. A business may ask what the animal is trained to do and may ask if the animal is required to assist the individual. If you lie, you are breaking federal law, though there is actually no mechanism in place to actually verify any claim. There is an effort to get the ADA modified to require actual certification and documentation since there are many individuals who claim ADA exemptions as a ruse to get their pets into places they would otherwise be prohibited from entering. The park may deny you access if they deny others for reasons not related to the service animal, such as an age restriction on your rig, or in the case of a membership park, if you are not a member. As an aside, there is no legal protection from them making your stay a living hell if they wanted to. They could watch your every move and if you didn't clean up after your dog, or the dog exhibited even a hint of agressive behaviour they could kick you out.
While your situation is serious, I can understand the reluctance of the website to not allow reviews where people do not visit. It would be unfair to people using the ratings if they became over-run with reviews that only quote why they didn't stay there. What good would a string of low ratings do anyone if all they said what "we didn't stay here because the other park in the area was cheaper, had more channels on the cable TV, had a better looking sign, etc. Your review is truly in a gray area, and I could see the website moderators going either way on it.
If it happened the way you described, you really should contact an advocate for the disabled in the area of the park and have them investigated or perhaps even contact an attorney for the disabled and sue them, they were in clear violation of the law.
Finally, you will be better served if you never refer to your service dogs as pets. It just makes it sound like you are trying to use the law to take fluffy with you, not because the dog is required due to a handicap.

Where shall I begin -

"therapy dogs do not have any ADA protections." - Actually they do and there have been a number of lawsuits filed in Federal Court with regards to this issue. One major one under recent consideration is that of a Student in a major College who attempted suicide after being denied her prescribed, registered SERVICE animal.

" require actual certification and documentation - An individual with a service animal has both a DOCTORS prescription, training documentation, etc... It does NOT say documentation is NOT required, it states They cannot REQUIRE you to provide proof said documentation. Because we have ran into this issue, we keep our proof with us at all times because it stops the harassment.

" A business may ask what the animal is trained to do and may ask if the animal is required to assist the individual. " - Again sadly you are mistaken, they can not ask you for this information. If they are a consumer based business they can not ask you for any paperwork, documentation, etc. Again there are a number of lawsuits documenting this.


"the dog exhibited even a hint of agressive behaviour they could kick you out. " - i truly wish I could document how many time I have been "attacked" by a "little" dog and people just shrugged it off. Regardless of an animals size, if it shows aggressive behavior (note correct spelling) it needs to be removed. Not just the people would would rather have a real dog.

" perhaps even contact an attorney for the disabled and sue them, " - This is EXACTLY what is wrong with today's society. Everyone is SUE happy. If you don't give me what I want, I'll just sue you. Whatever... I would rather post a bad review and watch their business go under via word of mouth, it does A LOT more damage than suing them. They would just settle out of court, slap a gag order on me, and no one would be any wiser.

" you will be better served if you never refer to your service dogs as pets." - They ARE our pets, They are our daily reminders of why, what, etc. They give us a reason if not a shoulder to get up in the morning. To place them on the level of nothing more than an "employee" with no feelings is cold hearted and I refuse to do that to them. They are our 4 legged children.

This post was not about side stepping laws, or having a review posted... It was to ask how other RV'ers felt about having their reservations, stay, etc turn into a nightmare because of their "pets"........

You need to revisit the ADA compliance laws, The law specifically states that
only service dogs (or minature horses) are covered by the current ADA regulations. A business CAN ask what the service animal is trained to do, and CAN ask if the service animal is required by the owner. A simple internet search will confirm those statements.
Since you obviously don't know the ADA laws, and you were very rude in pointing out a minor spelling error, I am now convinced the problem you had with the RV park was at least in part instigated and escalated by you. As for hiring a lawyer or consulting a disability advocate, it would benefit all disabled persons if a business that acted in such wanton disregard to the law was taken to task. Lawsuits are not always about greed. Finally, even the US department of Justice, on their ADA FAQ specifically states "A service animal is not a pet."

I guess then the ADA information we were given by the Veteran's Administration and ALL of my years of law research was incorrect. I am just another loser attempting to manipulate the system to get what I want, and this situation NEVER happened because I refuse to sue.

BTW if you had bothered to right click on the words with red under lining, I would not have had to point out your spelling errors. Maybe in your rush to point out how rude and wrong I am, you forgot to show little of your restraint.

And IF this park didn't already have one review here, and numerous others posted on other various websites with regards to this problem, I may even agree with you. As I can be a little rough around the edges and very much an in your face type person. However, I was the one who walked away from this situation, my hubby (AN AMERICAN VETERAN) was not inclined to do so. Thus maybe you are just a lot bit bent because as a NEWBIE I do know a thing or 2 and am not some old ignorant coot who has nothing better to do than rag on people all day.....

If you had already read bad reviews of the place, why did you still go? Wouldn't most people take that as a red flag and stay away?

And, please, can we be a little nicer here? There's really no need to turn this into a personal attack simply because someone happens to disagree.

Thanks for the clarification ref the second dog. I only asked because I know of someone that was trying to get his landlord to accept his girlfriend's dog as his second ADA dog when she moved into his no-pets-allowed building.

If what you posted was what you were told by the Veteran's Administration and what you found from your years of law research, it was incorrect. Here is the link the the US department of Justice's ADA information on Service Animals: www.ada.gov/service_animals_2010.htm
If you take the time to look at the information, you will notice my post was factually correct, spelling be darned. BTW, since you posted around noon, twice in the 2pm hour, once in the 3pm hour, then in the 4pm hour and finally in the 5pm hour, it kind of does appear you have nothing better to do than rag on people all day. And what, exactly, do you hope to accomplish by pointing out your husband is an American Veteran? Is that supposed to make him better than the rest of us?

We had not seen the reviews on this site, or the others until afterwards. Trust me if we had we would not have made reservations there. It has been one of the very valuable lessons we have learned. Now before making reservations we do check various reviewing sites to make sure it does not happen again. Checking reviews and Google Earth have become stand operating procedures prior to making any reservations.


Your friend's girlfriend would need to be evaluated and have the animal prescribed. Each State has different laws in addition to the ADA mandate. Although you are correct you may only have one animal per prescription.

From your posted link

Service animals are defined as dogs that are individually trained to do work or perform tasks for people with disabilities. Examples of such work or tasks include guiding people who are blind, alerting people who are deaf, pulling a wheelchair, alerting and protecting a person who is having a seizure, reminding a person with mental illness to take prescribed medications, calming a person with Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD) during an anxiety attack, or performing other duties. Service animals are working animals, not pets. The work or task a dog has been trained to provide must be directly related to the person’s disability. Dogs whose sole function is to provide comfort or emotional support do not qualify as service animals under the ADA.

Some State and local laws also define service animal more broadly than the ADA does. Information about such laws can be obtained from the State attorney general’s office

Although very informative it does not quote any cases before the courts with regards to these issues which is exactly what I did....

To me ALL VETERANS are better people than the average US citizen. They gave up a lot more than we will ever understand. Some of them also have some inappropriate behaviors towards certain situations because for their training, thus requiring a different than "normal" tactic in handling.

Some days I have more "down time" than others due to medical conditions. Today happened to be one of those... Tomorrow may be a different story... Hows your health, perfect I imagine.....

When it is not obvious what service an animal provides, only limited inquiries are allowed. Staff may ask two questions: (1) is the dog a service animal required because of a disability, and (2) what work or task has the dog been trained to perform. Staff cannot ask about the person’s disability, require medical documentation, require a special identification card or training documentation for the dog, or ask that the dog demonstrate its ability to perform the work or task


ADA Service Animals


Hope this helps for those who are a bit lost when it comes to EXACTLY what a service animal is... Although it classifies them as NOT a pet, most owners will refer to them as PETS because like us they do NOT wish to classify them as a lesser important animal....

There is some misunderstanding regarding terms. If your husband's dog is trained to assist him with PTSD then it is legally is "Service Dog". An example of a "therapy dog" would be a dog trained to visit hospitals and nursing homes and interact with a multiple people.
As for your husband being better than the average citizen, I find that repulsive. Our country was founded on the principle that we are all equal. If someone does or does not serve in the military is really immaterial. Unless he is a Vietnam Vet or really old and served in Korea or WW2 he VOLUNTEERED to be in the military. While his service is noble, it is a choice he made. If he responds "inappropriately" to certain situations, he needs to get help and avoid those situations.
Apparently, there is much more to this story than just the park's refusal to allow your dogs. Sounds like a confrontation occured, and it was spurred by your husband. Was the park's refusal to allow you to stay based more on your husband's actions and maybe not so much about the service dogs?
You took me to task about how your service dogs are your pets, yet you quoted the ADA statement that Service Dogs are not pets, guess I was right about that. If you have some knowledge of pending ADA litigation, so what? It is everyone's right to sue anyone about anything. Only when the outcome of the case is determined does it carry any legal significance.
As for my health, what difference does it make? But if you need to know, I either 1) have never been sick a day in my life, 2) have age appropriate health conditions or 3) am confined to a wheelchair which would explain why I have some knowledge of disability law. You just never know

You seemed to have missed the point completely about this post.....

I was asking.... Travelers with animals.....

Would you prefer to be fore warned about potential problems with your animals, especially in the case of MEMBERSHIP parks, prior to making reservations and or stopping at a park ? ? ? ? ? ?


That was / is / and always has been the point. You sir / ma'am chose to attempt to change the subject matter. I deeply apologize IF you feel this "NEWBIE" has offended you in some way, however your hostilities over MY preference calling of our SERVICE ANIMALS as pets is truly some of the worst inappropriate and flaming behavior I have experienced in my many many years as a FORUM PARTICIPANT.....

Good day dear person.....

Just between us, I thought he was kind of a jerk for trying to get around the rules like that. But since I was only a volunteer, I couldn't really say anything.

As for the g/f, she didn't have any disability...other than being with him.

One other question, if I may: Does an ADA dog (yeah, I know it's supposed to be called "service animal") have to be with the person for whom it's prescribed at the time it's doing something covered under ADA, such as being in a grocery store or restaurant?

I ask because several times there has been a lady with a pit bull (official looking orange vest and all) in one of the grocery stores in town. One day while we were all at the deli counter*, I asked her some stuff like how old her dog is, what his name is and what special talents he has and such. Come to find out, it was her mother's dog and her mother wasn't even in the store with them.

That sounds kinda odd to me.

(*This is kinda gross, but while we were standing there talking, the dog had it's nose in the freshly baked baguettes that were just in paper sleeves and not fully bagged. He was just sniffing and snorfling around in there. I don't buy those anymore.)

This friend, friend's girlfriend, and store lady all seem to be the type of people kcmowdoe is all up in arms about. People who know just enough about the law to by-pass rules, regulations, and policies. They "gray" area they would like see closed through the Federal Government.

Now to answer your question. NO the "employer" must remain with the animal at all times when outside the residence. The only time the "employer" is not with the animal, outside the residence, is during the training process and this is done by a Licensed Individual who MUST provide documentation if asked for it.

Since you stated the animal in question was sniffing the food products in the area, this is the first sign this animal is NOT a trained animal. A trained animal will either sit or stand, depending on training, patiently until it's "employer" is done with the activity they are involved in.

The "very official" looking vest you said the lady had on the animal can be purchased online at a variety of websites, the biggest being of course eBay... So having a vest or not having a vest is not always indicative of it being a prescribed service animal. As with all loop hole type things, kcmoedoe is correct. There will always be someone trying to use it to their benefit illegally....



kcmoedoe - - I apologize for misspelling your name the first-time in my reply.... e & w are side by side and since your name comes up as misspelled either way, I honestly didn't notice it. My bad....

Still don't know what being a "newbie" has to do with anything. You are the only one who has mentioned it in this entire thread. As for the distinction between "pet" and "Service Dog" there is VASTLY different protections allowed service dogs that do not apply to pets. If you do not refer to your service dog as a service dog, you are not going to receive the considerations and protections the Service Dog has rightly earned.

FYI - When asked how many "pets" - We do state "2 service animals..." Although I never felt it relevant......... When discussing them with others we call them by exactly what they are... In our hearts they are so much more.... Maybe instead of jumping to conclusions you should have really gone back and read what this whole post was about... Yes, we are except from many rules and regulations... However again that was not the point here.... I am actually concerned about MORE than just myself.... Now prior to making reservations, we call the park. We tell them we have 2 service animals and ask what their policies are PRIOR to making reservations.... The rude person accusing my Labrador of being a Staffordshire PIT BULL..... Was most assuredly a very valuable lesson learned.... I would pray and hope others would not have to go through the same "rough" lessons because they felt it wasn't worth being concerned about..... So...

Your jumping to conclusions all the way through you various posts, I did go back through and reread them a number of times to make sure I wasn't missing something, merely proved my point... You only took from it what you wished and went "a typing"..... Maybe next time ask questions before you go "a bashing"... You do NOT know me, my hubby, our animals, or the situation in which we found ourselves, just as I do not know you..... and at this point hinestly DO NOT care to.....

Have a nice day

In your own words, if you would look at the red underlined words you would see the correct spelling would be HONESTLY, not HINESTLY. You brought the sniping on yourself, with that comment about a mispelling of mine. There are also several other grammatical errors in you most recent post, but unlike you, I don't think it is necessary to point them out. You said your husband responds to certain situations poorly due to his PTSD. Since you pointed it out, I must assume it is related to your experiences. If you don't want your experiences to be discussed and disected, don't post them on a public forum.

Ok guys, this is enough. We don't care who started it. We don't care who spelled what wrong. We're stopping it. Stop with the rude, condescending, character assassination comments, or we will shut down the thread!

Go back to the original question only:

“As a pet owner I WANT to know IF I am going to run into a problem BEFORE I arrive or make reservations. Am I the only one?”