What if campground owners got together and started a site to rate us as campers? What if they used our names and said things about us that were not very flattering? Like, security had to stop at their site three times to ask them to respect quiet hour and they never would, we had to kick them out for distrubing their neighbors. Or this guy cut down four sapplings the park had recently planted. Or how about, these people allowed their children to run rampant in this park distrubing neighbors and destroying camp property. You should not rent sites to them. I wondered about this when we were camping recently and these things happened around us. The park owners had to ask a family to leave because their child was caught going through things on someone elses site. We had to report two teenagers that were purposely trying to clog a toilet in the restroom. The people three sites down from ours were only quiet while security was nearby, once they were gone they started up again, on the third stop they tried to start a fight with the security guys and they were finally asked to leave. The police were called and they wouldn't let them leave because they were drunk and couldn't be allowed to drive. They wound up sitting on the site babysitting these drunks all night. How about those of us that deficate in the showers or spread it around the toilet seats? I personally had to report one such incident to the office of one park, the lady came to the restroom to clean it and I spoke to her while she did, apparently it is not an isolated incident. What if she put the name of the person that did that on a web site?

Am I missing something here? We try to remove any names that are posted in reviews, good or bad. If one slipped through, please email me the Camground Name, City, and State. With over 17000 reviews online, and several people approving the hundreds of reviews submitted each day, it's possible for stuff to get into reviews that shouldn't be there. Approving, validating, and editing reviews is a tough job and we do our best to make sure that they are all appropriate. In the past 24 hours of approving reviews, at least one has been submitted for a city, but under the wrong state. Another posted for a campground which was obvoiusly not the right campground. The CGID (Campground ID) displayed with the campground is a big help when reporting issues. We have to rely on you guys to keep us posted on anything you find out of wack with the reviews.

I'm also sure that some of the people you are talking about will post bad reviews for these campgrounds because they got evicted for breaking the rules. What we need are the other campers at these campgrounds posting reviews about how greate it was for the noise making, toilet stopping up, etc... people to get booted from the park. I wouldn't have any problems with the RV Parks having a site like you describe.... I grew up camping from an early age and am an Eagle Scout, I try to leave every place I camp in the same or better condition than it was when I arrived.

For the 99% or better that pay attention to this website, the thought of being rated as campers would not be a problem. I think if you take the time to look at this website and do your homework to choose the right campgrounds for your family, you are probably not participating in the activities that you are describing. And if you are, then I am all for the camper rating program. It would be one more tool for me to use to make sure I provide a safe and enjoyable experience for my family. Listing those bad campers and the places that they frequent would also benefit campground owners. It would be like listing sex offenders in your neighborhood. Campground owners could keep a list of offenders and refuse permission to camp at their facilities.
Maybe I am going a bit overboard. I realize that sometimes people get caught up in the moment of having a good time while camping. It is easy to do. But, I also believe in following the law. As for the toilet incidents, I have never understood why people do such things.
I guess I have been fortunate. In all the years that I have been camping, I have only encountered less than a handful of "rule" breakers. And none of which were bad enough to warrant any kind of law enforcement. We did camp on Lake Norman in North Carolina one time just one week after a woman had shot her husband to death. Our campsite was just 3 away from the scene of the crime. Timing is everything.
My 2 Cents.
Dennis

To the webmaster, I wasn't referring to the names of the people writing the reviews, I was referring to the name of the campgrounds, obviously you couldn't review a park without its name, but is there any danger of deflemation lawsuits if the park was so miligned that it lost business over it? I have been a camper since I was a kid and I have seen a lot of things. We must remember that a lot of the complaints about things like dirty restrooms are because of the campers not taking care when they use the restrooms. If there is toilet paper on the floors, or toothpaste in the sink, that's us not the campground. The only way a campground could keep up with things like that would be to have restroom attendants, can you imagine what that would do to the cost of a campsite? Did you ever look at the dance area after a dance? Soda cans, beer cans, cups litter the area. That is not the fault of the campground, but of the campers. I make a point of throwing my trash away. I make sure I rinse the sink down after I brush my teeth and I will even pick up trash as I walk through a park. I am sure as an eagle scout, you would do the same, if we all did that, then there would probably be alot less complaining about a park having dirty bathrooms. Samething when campers complain of noise, it's not the park making the noise, it is the campers.
Dennis, you are right, there are fewer rule breakers than good law abiding campers, but the few are the vocal ones. They have a vendetta and will give a park a bad review just to get even. I don't know how to weed them out because I am sure there are some parks that are as bad as they say they are, there are a few I will never go back to. I think this site is a great tool, I just hope it is not abused by the rule breakers and that if it is the rest of us are aware of the possibility. I was turned on to this site sitting pool side at a park when I struck up a conversation with a man who said he had read a bad review of this park and was glad that he came to see for himself and was having a great time and found none of the bad reviews true. I hope everyone thinks like him. I am also glad he told me of the site, I have been busy writing reviews for the parks we have been to. I think if everyone that had a good time would write a note saying so it would be helpful for both the camper and the park.

I must say that if restrooms are continually filthy, it IS the campgrounds responsibility. We were recently at the Grizzly RV park in Yellowstone and were close to a restroom and I saw the staff check it numerous times a day. I don't think it would take a lot of manpower for someone to take 30 seconds and walk into a restroom. I personally have never used a restroom at a campground so do not know the condition they are generally in. It defintely is the responsibilty of the camper using that facility to pick up after themelves, but I do think it is the duty of the camprground to insure it is sanitary for other campers. While it is true that everyone may not see each and every park in the same light and the reviews may be at totally opposite ends of the spectrum, I think most of us are intelligent to read them all, and make a judgement for ourselves.

It would be fine with me. We are a couple with 3 small dogs who have them on a leash all the time, have them do their "business" on our site and then, of course, pick it up, tend to take the dogs with us when we go sightseeing or never leave them by themselves more than 3 hours and that is in the middle of the day, always back at the rv by 4 or 5pm, sit outside talking, and retire for bed by 10pm. We try to be as considerate as possible and ALWAYS read the campground rules when we 1st register. We have been rving for 24 years and have never disobeyed any rule. Maybe that is because we started rving after our 2 sons had graduated from high school and are older than alot of "campers" out there. I will say in all of the years of rving, it has been very few "incidents" that I would consider inconsiderate rvers.

I don't understand the comments or the concerns of dmsscc, the initial poster of this subject. After all, it is the function of this site to allow actual campers to post their views about a campground, good or bad. As the webmaster has stated, time and time again, people considering a campground should look at all the reviews and then make a decision based on all the comments. Some may be good and some may be bad. Everybody is entitled to their own opinions but, honestly, sometimes some of the most inane comments and statements are made on this site and, when I see them, I just tend to ingnore them.

dmsscs,

I understand your concerns, and the best advice I could give a park owner is to print out a stack of review sheets and give them to all your campers when they register. (Follow the downloads link from the home page to find them.) I'm not saying this to promote this site either as we have to read and approve all these reviews. If you run a good operation, then the reviews from more of your campers will help show it. If not, you will get insite into what your campers don't like. Many times it's simple things that can make a big difference ( shelves in the showers, tire rims for fire rings, a friendly smile from the employees ), these things don't cost much and often make a big difference. You can't please everyone, but you can try to please most of us. And as others have said the users of this site tend to ignore the wacky reviews. I won't pass up a campground because of one or two bad reviews, and I've even stayed at one that had nothing but bad reviews. ( I wanted to see if it was really as bad as claimed -- unfortunately it was. )

The webmaster's comments "hit the nail right on the head." Personally when scanning prospective campgrounds for a future stay I tend to give the most credence to the "trend" not an individual rating. If a CG has 8 reviews and one is terrible and the rest tend to fall in a favorable "Range" then I am positively inclined to consider that CG.

Once I've decided to consider a CG then I review the site's website for those facilities and functions that are highest on my list and make a decision.

"Bottom Line Up Front" (BLUF) A single bad review of a CG will not deter me from considering it; a pattern of bad reviews will. Simple

For you CG owners that monitor this site, we're not here to abuse you; we're here to protect your customers from those that either cannot, or do not care about their clientele and, in general, a single bad review amidst a pattern of good one's reflect on the writer, not you.

Unfortunately a c/g owner or manager cannot be sure of what is coming through his gate as a customer. However, if he has a list of good rules and makes them known, the customer/camper misbehaves or breaks the rules and the c/g owner/manager does not enforce those rules. Then he/she is at fault. On the other hand if they do enforce the rules, and promptly, no problem should annoy the other guest, since it no longer exist. This is what I watch for more than most other things. I do not want to have to participate in the management of any campground. I pay my fee for a good place to park and do not want to concern myself with some one elses behavior or mis-behavior.

The topic was SUPPOSE TO BE ~ "What if campground owners got together and started a site to rate us as campers" ~ which is NOT what this subject has turned into !

I think it's a GREAT IDEA ! After enough reviews, I would welcome the opportunity to walk into the registration office of a campground and ask for their "Considerate Camper" rate (10% discount ?) - which I could prove by the number of campground owners that left comments ABOUT ME and the campground's satisfaction with MY BEHAVIOR!

Everyone is saying "I'M not the problem - it's the other camper", but no one is *really* on topic!

Stay on topic, and consider how you'd feel if YOUR name (your real name, given to the campground when you registered - not your "site" or "screen" name), was listed on this site, and YOU were rated, as a camper;

-------------------
John & Jane Doe
Washington, DC
4 Reviews - 3 good, 1 bad

Campground: MD Family Campground, SomeTown, MD
We enjoyed having this family stay with us, and they were pleasant to all around them

Campground: VA Pretend Campground, AnyTown, VA
The children were very well behaved, they picked up after their dog, and gave this owner a appreciated suggestion so I can make my campground better for all!

Campground: NJ Shore Campground, TheShore, NJ
The kids helped my husband pick up trash for free use of paddle boats - great kids! Dog always behaved and quiet! Would welcome them back anytime!

Campground: PA Mountain Campground, Mountains, PA
Mother loud and always yelling at kids disturbed other campers.
-------------------

I can picture a future where a CAMPGROUND's policy is to only allow "Considerate Campers" to stay there, and then, as a camper, I'd have a much better idea of what condition the bathrooms would be in, how noisy the place might be after 10pm, or if the reviews of the campground on this site were on target !

AGAIN - I THINK IT's A GREAT IDEA !!

I also think, with today's laws against deformation, and ever increasing law suits in the courts, it's sadly an idea that never can, or will, happen!

Shame too, I really would have enjoyed that discount for being a "Considerate Camper" !

The problem with providing this kind of service as a camper is in the money. Campgrounds are a for-profit business and as such they offer a service. That service and the money for which it is exchanged constitutes a contract of sorts, whereby the campground agrees to provide certain amenities and a sustained level of good service in exchange for your money, and you as a camper in turn agree not to break the rules.

I would hope that most campgrounds have mechanisms in place to weed out the bad campers before their stay is over; these people tend to show themselves for who they are fairly quickly. They have immediate recourse not only through their own security but also through local police if the situation gets extreme.

The camper, however, has only limited resources at his/her disposal if they should have a bad experience. Their money is already gone and the possibility of a discount/refund is highly unlikely and can be a lengthy process likely not resolved until months after the camper's stay is over. Luckily we also have this website to relay bad experiences as cautionary tales for the next guy.

In short, the cards are already stacked in the campground's favor. Why make it any easier for them?

WebWabbit. Finally someone that understood what I was trying to get at. I think a considerate camper discount would be a great idea. Hmmm, I wonder how we could get that going!!
I wonder if the drunks we saw knew their name and address would be posted on a website where family, friends and bosses might read:
Jane and John Doe
55 Some Place
Anyway, Tenn.
Jane and John were drinking so heavily and caused such a distrubance the police had to be called. Law enforcement determined the couple were too drunk to leave and remained on their site with security personnel standing watch at great expense to the park and the neighboring campsites. Do not rent to these campers.

Not only would it help the good campers with a discount, I think we could all be entertained by some of the things people do. I wonder if they would risk such exposure? We could all benefit from it!

We were at a park that gave kids Random Acts of Kindness rewards. If they saw a kid doing a good deed, they gave them a slushy, I don't know how well it works for them, but I know the kid I saw get his reward was well behaved the whole weekend. Sometimes rewarding the good works better than punishing the bad.

I would welcome being rated!

I also appreciate hearing the [b]OPINIONS[/b] of other campers. Heaven knows, I ask my neighbors about area restaurants, doctors, schools, churches, etc. Why not campgrounds? Especially when we have a significant investment in getting there and renting a space.

Campgrounds can take care of problem guests by asking them to leave -- have you ever tried to get a refund from a problem campground?

Scoutmom

Actually it wouldn't be hard to do.

Establish a notebook, like a passport with endorsements in it from the various campgrounds that you've visited complete with a short "atta boy" and a campground stamp to validate the data.

10 gold stars and you get a discount.

Wouldn't stop the "paid" good camper eval's, but would go a long way.

Just a quicky thought.

WebWabbit was right on with that write up. I'd welcome the idea but I know it will never happen. And after a while where would it end? We'd start having communities of "good neighbors", stores that only were open to "good shoppers", roads for only "good drivers"... Can you then imagine the groups that would sprout up for all those less desirables demanding equal rights to live in the same neighborhood, use the same stores, drive on the same roads...

Well my imagination was running wild here for a few minutes and it reminded me of the book "Animal Farm" by George Orwell; thinking I would be the best and the smartest

And who is going to be the judge of all these good and bad attributes?? A committee maybe? We will end up with a 3 hump camel. Maybe we just better let well enough alone.

Recently when I visited the KY Horsepark, I spent the first 30 minutes after setting up policing the campsite cleaning up the littler, cigarette butts, etc., etc. The next morning, I get the pleasure of picking up a dirty disposable diaper beside the trash can that was thrown on the ground instead of in it. I even bought one of those hand pickup devices for this purpose. It is a shame that many people out there do not take your attitude of trying "...to leave every place I camp in the same or better condition than it was when I arrived."

As you do, I tend to consider all of the reviews. I also take it one step further when there are bad reviews. I try to determine what caused the bad review. I have seen bad reviews because some one with a 45' bulgemobile tried to squeeze into a 30' slot and then blamed the campground even though their information clearly indicated that a 30' RV was the limit that they could handle.

I believe they are called "LAWYERS"....

I think there is one big difference between rating camp grounds and rating campers. When rating a camp ground you are the quality of service a certain business provides. I happens all the time, just look at restaurant or movie reviews. I have yet to see a lawsuit resulting from a bad movie review. Rating a camper brings things to a more personal level. If a campground owner writes that John Doe is a menace to society, a constant drunk and drug pusher and the lowest form of life on earth this could easily bring a defamation lawsuit.

I, however, don't think I would have any problems if I were rated as a camper.

From a campground owner: we don't rate campers, but if we have a problem with a particular camper, they are put on our Alert List - which means they have a notation on their file as to the problem. (We have a computer program where we can input all this information.) If they are not welcome back, our staff cannot take their reservation without contacting us first. They can tell the customer that there was a problem last time they were with us and the owner needs to speak to them before we can accept the reservation.

We also use the Alert List for telling the staff that a customer is handicapped (some never tell us because they don't want special treatment), has a medical problem (on oxygen, etc), prefers specific sites, etc. These comments help us serve the customer better. For example, if we need to turn off the electricity, we can tell the customer on oxygen to switch to his portable tank for the duration needed.

So we use our Alert List for the postive as well as negative comments. Usually, the ones with the negative comments don't return and therfore we do not have a problem. They may go to other campgrounds and have no problems at all. So, in a way, we already "rate" our campers on the Pass / Fail system.

Just my comments. Thanks for listening.

mpj:

I think your system is great, especially the part about making notations on the camper's needs, likes, problems, etc. I also have no problem with you keeping notations on "problem" guests. Chances are, if I stayed at your park and we had a problem, I wouldn't be back anyway. But, again, your system is very good, and I wish more parks would do likewise.

A few years back we were witness to an altercation that occurred in an upstate New York KOA between some across the border persons and the KOA manager and a campground worker. An assault by the camping guest occurred and the State Police were called and one of the guest was removed and detained. This is what occurred in a nut shell, but the point I would like to make everyone aware of: is that KOA owners have the ability to write up anyone that is a problem for whatever the reason. This information is posted and is available to any and all KOA campgrounds. This information is applied so that it appears when that person makes an inquiry as to any services provided by any KOA campground. This procedure may have changed over the years, but was available.

Back on topic.

dmsscs, if you want to start a website, I have a few names that we can start the thing off with!

There are too many folks out there who have entitlement issues. It's not just campers. I've stayed in many hotels where the guests have the same problems.