Hi Denali, Todays report: 10:00 AM 13 volts and 6.2 amps charging. It did not get cold enough for the heater in the bathroom to cycle on last night. I've changed the heater in the bathroom to a lower wattage one that has no fan. Yes, JJ, it is a small oil filled unit--462 watts according to the Kill-o-watt meter. I've moved the kill-o-watt meter to just after the inverter so it will track the 25 watts of heat in the waste storage *and* the heater in the bathroom. 3:00 PM voltage fluctuating with cloud cover from 14.1 (full sun and 14 amps) and 13.6 (full cloud and 4 amps). The 14 amps @14.1 volts represents a C20 charging rate which suggests about 96% of full charge. The 4 amps @ 13.6 represents a C75 charging rate which is not really on my chart--but the C40 rate which *is* suggests that is about 103% The system has not reached "float charge" since Wednesday, but I suspect with the clearing of the clouds that today it will probably "get there" today. The kill-o-watt meter reported I used 2 watts between 10:00 AM and 3:00 PM (I guess I'd better go out and get more panels!!! LOL) This is the last night in the forecast for freezing temperatures--but just for insurance I think I'll leave the system running. After all, it doesn't cost a dime! I'll be away on Monday--making a trip with my brother in his Citation (my old one). I'll use that time away to monitor how many watts are used in a six day framework. I don't know what heart rods are LOL! Heater rods are used in humidity control systems for pianos. They come in various wattages from 9 to 50 watts and various lengths. I sometimes have extra rods that are not needed in the particular piano. I've used them in the past to help "winter proof" things such as my fresh water line. QUOTE(Denali @ May 15 2009, 11:57 AM) [snapback]16413[/snapback] Thanks for the great reports, Don. One question, though: What are heart rods?
I like the sound of these heater rods! Where could the non-piano-tuna-consumer purchase these devices?
May 16 report: 10:00 AM voltage 13.1, charging at 10.1 amps. Sky was clear This represents a C 30 charge rate which suggests batteries are about 65% of capacity. Kill-o-watt meter reading was 630 watts over a 24 hour period or 26.25 watts per hour 3:00 PM voltage 14.8 and 3024di (charge controller) indicating float charging at 7.0 amps. Sky was cloudy. This represents a c 42 charge rate which suggests batteries are at 115% of capacity I'll not be doing another report for a week as I'm off in my old RV with my brother who is now the proud owner.
Hi FosterImposters, There are two sources. The original DamppChaser humidity control system rods can be ordered by any piano technician for you. 9 watt rod is about 14" 15 watt rod can be 24" or 36" 25 watt rod can be 24", 36" or 48" 38 watt rod can be 36" or 48" 50 watt rod is 48" All the 48" rods can be ordered with an "extender" so they can be made up to about 53" long. There is a competitor as well whose rods come in shorter sizes and even lower wattage. Follow the link below. http://www.kingmaker.net/mears.htm The rods are distinctly *not* cheap. If you are the least bit "handy" you could wire some light bulbs sockets in series which will turn ordinary incandescent bulbs into fairly efficient heaters. Use Y connectors so there are four bulbs all together--two in parallel and two in series. That way if one bulb dies the heat output will be reduced by just that amount of wattage. Of course you can start at 7 watts and go up to about 300 watts for such a unit. It's cheap, and it works. Another cheaper alternative may be heat tape which comes in various lengths and often has a thermostat built in. Wattage tends to be a lot higher. Make sure the heat tape is *not* overlapped. It may cause a fire if that is done. QUOTE(FosterImposters @ May 16 2009, 10:42 AM) [snapback]16419[/snapback] I like the sound of these heater rods! Where could the non-piano-tuna-consumer purchase these devices?
Hi all, May 23, 2009 My week "away" report has been "buffaloed" by the RV storage and repair facility--they brought the unit in for a replacement door lock--so no news on wattage for the week. Battery is showing at 12.5 volts at rest. The RV was inside since 4:55 pm on Friday.
Hi All, The batteries were full up today and I'm preparing for the trip in June, so I decided I'd "play" and see how things went with running the air conditioner from the inverter with the engine on the RV *not* running. I started the fan first on low--and my kill-o-watt meter suggested a draw of 175 watts. Then I tried high fan and wattage jumped to 225. I put the fan back to low, turned the thermostat up to 100 degrees, switched the thermostat setting to cool, and slowly slide the temperature indicator down to where the air conditioner compressor cut in. The inverter didn't even burp and the draw according to the kill-o-watt meter was 960 watts. (I suppose about 80 amps). I'm pleased as punch! Are there any concerns I need to worry about if I'm trundling down the road and wish to use the roof air conditioner? The alternator is rated at 130 amps and I get about 12 to 14 amps from the solar panels.
QUOTE(pianotuna @ May 29 2009, 07:02 PM) [snapback]16729[/snapback] Hi All, The batteries were full up today and I'm preparing for the trip in June, so I decided I'd "play" and see how things went with running the air conditioner from the inverter with the engine on the RV *not* running. I started the fan first on low--and my kill-o-watt meter suggested a draw of 175 watts. Then I tried high fan and wattage jumped to 225. I put the fan back to low, turned the thermostat up to 100 degrees, switched the thermostat setting to cool, and slowly slide the temperature indicator down to where the air conditioner compressor cut in. The inverter didn't even burp and the draw according to the kill-o-watt meter was 960 watts. (I suppose about 80 amps). I'm pleased as punch! Are there any concerns I need to worry about if I'm trundling down the road and wish to use the roof air conditioner? The alternator is rated at 130 amps and I get about 12 to 14 amps from the solar panels. Thanks for the report, Don. I would never have tried that. I don't have an informed opinion about using an inverter to run an AC while relying on the engine alternator to keep up with the electric load. We use our generator when we want to run the AC on the road.
Hi all, Today's experiment was to see if I could bring the fridge down to where it would cycle using solar power only. It draws 305 watts from the inverter as measured by my kill-o-watt unit. I'm pleased to say that the panels and batteries were "up to the task". It took about 5 hours for the fridge to cycle starting from scratch. I had two freezer packs in the upper compartment, and about twenty can's of pop and juice in the Fridge. I also measured the "draw" from the hot water heater and found it was a maximum of 1131 watts. It bounces around I think because of the wave form from the inverter. The square wave from the inverter "fools" the kill-o-watt and makes it think the frequency of the power is about 15 hertz. I guess I should start to watch for a cheap pure sine wave inverter if I intend to use the air conditioner--I really don't relish burning out the motors in it. The only devices left to measure "draw" on are the microwave, and on the block heater. I do know the microwave will run, but I also know it doesn't much like the modified sine wave inverter power, either. I'm hoping the block heater will be sufficiently low draw that I can, in mid winter, just go over, turn on the inverter and plug it in. It would be sooo nice to not have to haul my generator over at -30 C temperatures.
QUOTE(pianotuna @ May 30 2009, 06:45 PM) [snapback]16744[/snapback] The square wave from the inverter "fools" the kill-o-watt and makes it think the frequency of the power is about 15 hertz. I guess I should start to watch for a cheap pure sine wave inverter if I intend to use the air conditioner--I really don't relish burning out the motors in it. The only devices left to measure "draw" on are the microwave, and on the block heater. I do know the microwave will run, but I also know it doesn't much like the modified sine wave inverter power, either. I have read repeatedly that inductive motors, such as those in air conditioners, work just fine on modified sine wave power. That said, you are the only soul I know who has ever tried to run an AC from an MSW inverter. The $1,000,000+ Prevost conversions can run their ACs on inverters, but they have enormous battery banks and multiple true sine wave inverters. (I don't know any of those folks, ) We have run our microwave ovens many times from MSW inverters. They run at about half power and make a loud humming noise, but they do work. Because they cause such a large battery drain, we always start the generator if we need to do more than warm a cup of coffee. Keep up the research, Don. If makes fascinating reading.
Hi Denali, Thanks for the encouragement. I did the "draw" on the block heater and the results are making me smile from ear to ear. It takes 584 watts--which means I can run it for over 3 hours without using more than 50% of my current house battery capacity! That is without the solar panels providing any energy at all as well! That's enough time for the block heater to reach "steady state"--so no more dragging the generator over in very cold weather for this RV'er! The generator will be relegated to those few times where I wish to take the RV somewhere and *not* move for a week or more.
Hi all, Oh, the perils of shooting off your mouth without checking! Turns out my solenoid is not set for 14.2 volts as I thought--in fact it is not working at all!!!! Also my dash air is not working. This will impact my trip as I decided (foolishly it now seems) to leave my generator at home. Getting Dash air fixed on the road may be nearly impossible. Ditto for the solenoid charging system. Fortunately the solar system is working perfectly--so I do have full batteries--if I restrict how much power I draw. I'll probably try to run the roof air on them for an hour this afternoon when the RV starts to become intolerable.
Hi all, I have some more data on my solar system. When I was not driving I'd from time to time watch how many amps were being presented to the batteries. Because of the problem with the solenoid based charging system I managed to discharge them farther than I prefer to do so. On that day, the maximum amps hit 19.5! That is higher than the rated output for my system! I've also noted that even in a moderate rain the panels still kick out from 3 to 4 amps.
Hi all, Well I'm back from a 9000 kilometer trip--lots of boondocking. My panels put out 20.8 amps at one point--which is higher than their rated output. I'm very pleased to say the least. I was able to run the Fridge on 110 volt from the inverter and the panels were able to handle the load. As a side light I also found out that when the Fridge thermostat cycles that the demand in watts drops way down.
QUOTE(pianotuna @ Jun 23 2009, 08:56 PM) [snapback]17093[/snapback] My panels put out 20.8 amps at one point--which is higher than their rated output. I'm very pleased to say the least. Did you head south to get those heady numbers on that looong trip? I'm in SE Arizona and don't expect to have much trouble with things like "cold" and "clouds", heh heh. I am dying to do a solar mod, though and really appreciate all of your great data and info - keep it coming! FX
Hi RockinFX, The 20.8 number for amps came up when I was driving in North Dakota. Since you are planning a solar mod, you might be interested in the post I made here: http://freecampsites.net/forum/technology/...-system/page-1/ and also http://freecampsites.net/forum/technology/...troller/page-1/ In fact, solar panels work better (i.e. have a higher output) at cooler temperatures, so the "deep south" probably requires more panels for a given wattage than up north. QUOTE(RockinFX @ Jun 24 2009, 01:14 PM) [snapback]17099[/snapback] Did you head south to get those heady numbers on that looong trip? I'm in SE Arizona and don't expect to have much trouble with things like "cold" and "clouds", heh heh. I am dying to do a solar mod, though and really appreciate all of your great data and info - keep it coming! FX
QUOTE(pianotuna @ Jun 24 2009, 08:51 PM) [snapback]17105[/snapback] In fact, solar panels work better (i.e. have a higher output) at cooler temperatures, so the "deep south" probably requires more panels for a given wattage than up north. Thanks so very much for the links, Don - *much* appreciated! You are absolutely right about the PV output, of course. Generally the 325 days of unmitigated sunshine we get makes up somewhat for the reduced output per module. I was mostly referring to your travails with keeping things defrosted and heated. I have the exact opposite problem here, needless to say. Having ongoing real world experience like yours to refer to is priceless and I thank you again for sharing it. FX
Solar is the way to go! My fridge however runs on propane and so does my heater (catalytique). Buying propane does not bother me as I use external bottles, easily stored in the trailer behind us that tows the motorcycle and sidecar. As I read you report I smile... you have the words of a new solar user! Many Friends, including myself, could not lift my eyes from the panel with all the info!!! I have not used a gen set in over a year now (no microwave and it is only Spirit and I) and I don't even look at the panel anymore! That's funny. We have a Onan 5KW I am thinking about pulling out and a Honda 2KW that I do use for power tools and roasting my coffee... Great show... Thanks! Be well... Ara & Spirit The Oasis of my Soul
Hi all, I'm adding another four batteries to my system. Here is what I hope to accomplish. Two banks of batteries. (A and B ) Each bank able to power the inverter Each bank able to charge from the solar panels independent of the other bank Each bank able to be charged from the engine. Power able to be drawn from A or B, or from both It seems to me one way to do this is to have the inverter, the solar charger, the engine charging circuit and the supply to the RV on one side of a three position switch that has an A, B, and both setting on the other side. Can anyone think of better ways to accomplish this task?
Four more batteries? Wow! I'm jealous. I don't know of a better way of accomplishing what you want, but I have a couple of questions. Will your engine alternator be able to handle the charging load of four house batteries in addition to the chassis batteries? In bulk mode, our inverter/charger pumps 90-100 amps into our four six volt batteries. If I need to start the engine before getting the house batteries charged, the alternator charges the house batteries at a rate of 100-110 amps. I worry about our 130 amp alternator. Do you have enough solar panels to take advantage of the extra batteries? I have considered adding more house batteries to our coach, but our 340 watts of solar panels wouldn't be able to keep them charged, even in the desert. -- Dave Rudisill 2004 Beaver Monterey
